THE BOSE/FISHMAN A/B IS ON! 10/8 N. Dallas

[lodi_55]

I will definitely check out the Solo Amp at the GC in San Francisco. Part of what will really interest me was not covered in the "A/B" conducted by some members here. While not scientific, we definitely appreciate setting it up (especially Rich) and everyone who participated. Here's what I would like to see for the next one.

1. How easy can performers switch between configurations? Such as going from two nylon guitars to two steel guitars?

2. In general how does each handle a classical/flamenco/crossover guitars?

3. How easy is the access to adjusting/tweaking volume/muting/effects?

4. How does each perform outdoors?

5. What is the level of sound degradation with two guitars vs one?

I'll probably think of a few more! Not to say these should have been done, but at some point it would be interesting to see how each stacks up given some different "situations".

Now granted, many of these things are aspects of my Bose system that I really find to be essential. Just curious how the Solo Amp would hold up.

[rmyAddison]

Mike and others,

Thanks for the kind words.

My personal involvement is done. The Fishman folks have convinced me that these two products really do have different focus, the SoloAmp is called "solo" for a reason, it is intended for acoustic guitar and vocal or for a duo with two systems, no more no less.

My goal was to see how they stacked up for the "overlap" usage of the solo acoustic player wanting a small quick and easy rig. In that arena the SoloAmp held it's own (more in my opinion) and it's 40% the cost of the L1, nor brainer to me "for solo acoustic players/singers".

Getting into different instruments or multi-player band usage is a moot point, we heard it from Fishman direct, that is not the intent of this product. It's not for keyboard or bass players or 5 piece bands, no point in A/B'ing a product against it's intended use.

While I enjoyed the A/B'ing and meeting new friends in retrospect it was a bit of an Apples to Oranges comparison, and I understand the differences in purpose much better now. Bottom line to me it's a great product for the acoustic performer at a fantastic price point. If you're a keyboard player, electric guitar player, bass player, etc. look elsewhere.

Take care, thanks.

[MikeTX]

Kram - we did not try a KB - I have run my Gibson ES-137 hollow electric and it sounds good.

Side - if they made cookies, they would COST!

Lodi - we did not try a nylon, bet it would sound good

The controls are easily accessable, I think. You can also plug in a simple footswitch for the overall mute if that appeals.

I've used it outside twice, and it sounds and disperses well.

Multiple guitars! FINE question. MY opinions:

I would NOT run two guitars, two players at the same time, through it, unless the venue was micro-tiny. Ditto my Bose setup. I believe in the One-On-One theory.

One player switching guitars... big issue for me too. If they were similar voiced, level, etc - changing cords or an A/B box would be fine. In my case, my levels are greatly different, eq's are greatly different, so I ended up using a simple mixer into the guitar channel.

Hope this helps, Mike

[MikeTX]

Been said before, but our RICH did a very wonderful thing setting up this session, and spent untold time, thought, energy and probably a few bucks in the process. Much info gained!

Thank you VERY much Good Sir, new friend!

Unexpected bonus in the deal was Joe B's personal visit, spending two days with travel, just to see regular guys' reaction to Fishman's new product, for 90 minutes or so - and thank YOU as well.

[lodi_55]

Originally Posted by MikeTX

Kram - we did not try a KB - I have run my Gibson ES-137 hollow electric and it sounds good.

Side - if they made cookies, they would COST!

Lodi - we did not try a nylon, bet it would sound good

The controls are easily accessable, I think. You can also plug in a simple footswitch for the overall mute if that appeals.

I've used it outside twice, and it sounds and disperses well.

Multiple guitars! FINE question. MY opinions:

I would NOT run two guitars, two players at the same time, through it, unless the venue was micro-tiny. Ditto my Bose setup. I believe in the One-On-One theory.

One player switching guitars... big issue for me too. If they were similar voiced, level, etc - changing cords or an A/B box would be fine. In my case, my levels are greatly different, eq's are greatly different, so I ended up using a simple mixer into the guitar channel.

Hope this helps, Mike

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the reply. I use the Bose sort of the way I described. We do a Spanish/Latin set on nylons, followed by a Blues/Fingerstyle set with my Taylor and my buddy's Guild. The T1 makes it a breeze to switch between the two...

But yeah, even with two guitars, there is not quite the "clarity of sound" vs. one guitar. But we think it's more than good enough and the audience(s) tend to agree. I wouldn't go for three, though

[MikeTX]

Mike - do y'all sing too, or dual instrumentals?

If you're instrumentalists, you could each take a channel in the SoloAmp...

You could also use the T-1 with the SoloAmp. There's a hiss when you plug ANY mixer or even pre-amp, DI, but the 10DB pad cures it. Also, there's probably settings in the T-1 that would help, but I didn't take the time to find them.

Just thoughts for you...

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by Side Man

Like my old history teacher used to say, "so what's this got to do with the price of tea in China?"... The Fishman SoloAmp is meant to be just that - a simple, lightweight, affordable means for acoustic musicians to amplify themselves in a small club setting. I never read anywhere where Fishman has attempted to market it as anything but.

As for the Bose systems and multiple musicians using them in a band context, lets talk reality here... Any band worth their salt would have a soundperson mixing them from out front because (in my experience) it's next to impossible to balance more than a couple of amplified players from the stage. You can't properly gauge what the couple at the corner table at the back of the room are hearing (they're probably ignoring the band anyway)... And at a couple of grand a pop, that's a sizable investment for any band. To quote Don Zimmer: "If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, we'd all have a hell of a Christmas"...

There is also the price of eggs in addition to the price of tea in China. In other words, there is more being discussed here than just the SoloAmp. Several posts have mentioned stereo PA systems, or perhaps more appropriately, twin speaker cabinet PA systems. Someone even mentioned "true stereo". I must not have been clear enough:

My point was that true stereophonic sound is rarely achieved with PA systems and when it is, it is only discernible in a small area of the room so stating that a stereo system is superior is misleading.

One member did mentioned that his goal with two speaker cabinets was better dispersion so perhaps we can infer that stereo imaging was not and end for him. Given a narrow dispersion, two speakers would be necessary, but with a wide enough horizontal dispersion and a focused vertical dispersion one might be enough.

I have understood, since its announcement, that the SoloAmp was intended as an alternative to conventional guitar amps and have never suggested otherwise. I am not the one who compared it to the Bose L1 but plenty of members are grateful for the efforts of those that did and who took the time to post their impressions.

Claiming that "any band worth their salt would have a soundperson" ignores the many good, hard-working bands with conventional PAs that don't have a sound man making that argument against a multiple Bose setup a specious one.

I don't own a Bose PA but am able to appreciate its different approach and the benefits it offers. Fortunately there are PA and acoustic amp choices to satisfy the tastes of just about everyone.

[lodi_55]

Originally Posted by MikeTX

Mike - do y'all sing too, or dual instrumentals?

If you're instrumentalists, you could each take a channel in the SoloAmp...

You could also use the T-1 with the SoloAmp. There's a hiss when you plug ANY mixer or even pre-amp, DI, but the 10DB pad cures it. Also, there's probably settings in the T-1 that would help, but I didn't take the time to find them.

Just thoughts for you...

Hi Mike,

We're basically instrumental, but I'll let loose with some sub-par vocals now and then (SM57 in line 3). I'm really happy with the Bose, but was just curious how the SoloAmp is for allowing you to make major changes (steel vs. nylon, for example) on the fly. The "scenes" in the T1 (which I guess one could use with the Soloamp) is what really hooked me. What used to take 5-10 minutes now takes about 30 seconds!

it just seems from some of the posts that 2 guitars is definitely not recommended with the SoloAmp.. Same with the Bose, but I have been more than happy with the results with 2 guitars and vocals happening at the same time

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by Cakes

As for the expense, if someone finds it valuable and finds that their patrons and customers respond, it's worth every penny. Just depends on the individual situation.

I would love to try multiple L1s in a band setting! One thing that I think could be cool about that is if each person in the band is committed to playing live music, each person in the band can make an individual investment in a personal piece of gear that also serves the band.

Most of the time, with conventional PA equipment, it seems like one person in the band owns almost everything and when bands break up, that one person has a ton of band gear that may or may not work in different situations (other bands, solo act, duo, etc.) If each band member bought their own L1 and people decided to move on, they'd each take their L1 with them and have a wonderful piece of gear for their next project.

I don't know if it really works out that way. Maybe one person ends up owning several L1s (I have 2 and I'm a solo act!) but it seems like a good idea in theory.

Matt

[Stringmaster]

I didn't see it mentioned, but how would the Fishman Solo work out using 2 microphones--one for guitar, and one for vocals, for those of us who don't "plug in"?
Thanks

[alohachris]

Aloha John,

With respect to the notion of "two sources always sounding better than one", certainly there is room for opinion and personal preference, but the question of what is more "natural" is a little less subjective. Consider that when you have no amplification whatsoever - you're just listening to a great guitar player and singer, the sound comes directly from the musician (source) to your ears. There's no sound from right and left. In a perfect world, we wouldn't need amplification systems. But since we do, there is something to be said for the sound originating from the source. (possible with either Fishman or Bose, by the way) Food for thought.


John, regarding the ongoing 'two source versus one source' discussion, here's some food for thought.

For achieving and room-controlling more accurate, "natural" sound out of ANY amplification speaker system, I still cannot understand why ANYONE would choose a single speaker source system, even a single acoustic amp, single Soloamp, single Bose, or single conventional speaker UNLESS you don't have the stage space for two speakers or, you're simply tired of more schlepping, enough to not care about getting the best available live sound. And I state that as an older gigger who hates all the schlepping after gigs, but who wouldn't consider less than stereo live sound reinforcement again, UNLESS the stage space is minute.

I mean, would you choose a single mono speaker for a playback sound system of ANY kind, John? Like for playing CD's or a computer? Of course not. Do sound engineers mix back solely on mono Aurtones? No, they mix in stereo. Do you listen to music through one headphone? No

Why? Because stereo is incomparably better for every aspect of sound and for controlling and shaping it to a given listening space, right? So then, my question still stands. Why does anyone use a single speaker source system for their LIVE gigs in terms of control and the quality of music? Why the compromise for LIVE amplification?

Just playing devil's advocate here to find out why. That's it.

alohachris

[franchelB]

I'm sorry I missed the "A/B" test! I gig every Wednesday nights in Grapevine. Had it been any other day....

[denny1948golf]

Bought one today at my local Sam Ash. They matched the delivered price at Music 123, AND I got 12 Months Same As Cash.

Played the Dolye Dykes again through the Solo along with several other high end acoustics. The DDSM and Solo are a match made in heaven. I's wondering how a T5 will sound with the Solo.

Denny

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha John,

With respect to the notion of "two sources always sounding better than one", certainly there is room for opinion and personal preference, but the question of what is more "natural" is a little less subjective. Consider that when you have no amplification whatsoever - you're just listening to a great guitar player and singer, the sound comes directly from the musician (source) to your ears. There's no sound from right and left. In a perfect world, we wouldn't need amplification systems. But since we do, there is something to be said for the sound originating from the source. (possible with either Fishman or Bose, by the way) Food for thought.


John, regarding the ongoing 'two source versus one source' discussion, here's some food for thought.

For achieving and room-controlling more accurate, "natural" sound out of ANY amplification speaker system, I still cannot understand why ANYONE would choose a single speaker source system, even a single acoustic amp, single Soloamp, single Bose, or single conventional speaker UNLESS you don't have the stage space for two speakers or, you're simply tired of more schlepping, enough to not care about getting the best available live sound. And I state that as an older gigger who hates all the schlepping after gigs, but who wouldn't consider less than stereo live sound reinforcement again, UNLESS the stage space is minute.

I mean, would you choose a single mono speaker for a playback sound system of ANY kind, John? Like for playing CD's or a computer? Of course not. Do sound engineers mix back solely on mono Aurtones? No, they mix in stereo. Do you listen to music through one headphone? No

Why? Because stereo is incomparably better for every aspect of sound and for controlling and shaping it to a given listening space, right? So then, my question still stands. Why does anyone use a single speaker source system for their LIVE gigs in terms of control and the quality of music? Why the compromise for LIVE amplification?

Just playing devil's advocate here to find out why. That's it.

alohachris

First, as I've already mentioned, a PA setup to produce a stereophonic sound stage is a rarity and when it is accomplished that effect is only present in a small area of the room. A large percentage of the audience will not be positioned in that area. So we really aren't talking about true stereophonic sound. Having a pair of conventional speaker cabinets, then, does not necessarily produce a stereophonic effect or proper imaging, it simply offers improved dispersion. In some rooms, the Bose line array does a better job of filling the room with sound while providing better imaging (assuming one performer per speaker column) than a pair of conventional speakers.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by Stringmaster

I didn't see it mentioned, but how would the Fishman Solo work out using 2 microphones--one for guitar, and one for vocals, for those of us who don't "plug in"?
Thanks

Channels 1 and 2 on the SoloAmp have both 1/4" and XLR inputs so if you were using two mics, you'd plug one mic into channel 1 and one mic into channel 2.

Matt