Advice for Beginner RE: Upcoming Set-Up

[Dogma]

Okay, in need of help and clarification from more experienced AGF compatriots per below:

In reading through the recent thread on “What advice would you give to a beginner..” (or words to that effect), one of the most repeated suggestions is to shell out for a good set-up, especially on a new, or new-to-you guitar.

I have been playing for a little less than a year and purchased a new-to-me guitar last April, from a reputable shop in my region (not in my city). It is a nice guitar by a respected luthier. It is not a new instrument. I have recently been having some questions about various things I’m hearing on certain strings so, on reading the post referenced above, made a local appointment for a guitar “check-up” and set-up. The appointment is in March.

Subsequently, I have read through the thread started by the person who took a Martin in for set-up and got what the OP (and some others here) feel is poor tech-work which left the guitar in worse condition. What concerns me, vis-a-vis my own situation, is that many of the comments in this thread stress the importance of communication, and being very specific with the tech regarding ones' playing style and tolerance for action height, etc. As a beginner, I have to say that I don’t yet know what my playing style is, and I have no idea about my preferred set-up as I have had exactly one guitar, and it is my only point of reference! Of course, I have played others in stores, but not for long enough to have any clear sense of preferences.

So, what should I be telling the tech when I take the guitar in? Is it enough to say that I am a beginner and would like the instrument to play “as well as it can?” The “Basic Set-Up” is $75. Is there anything (likely to be) included in that scope of work that I should ask to be able to approve before they do the work? Or should it be adequate or ask that anything above and beyond the basic scope needs to be discussed? Any suggestions gratefully welcomed.

Secondly, I live in Portland, OR and have the appointment at 12th Fret, which is a repair shop I know has been around for a very long time. If anyone here knows of another place or person locally that I should consider or just know about for the future, I welcome that information as well.

Many thanks, in advance, for thoughts and suggestions.

[Morrill]

Great question! I will be watching this thread.

[bufflehead]

Before I do a setup I try to determine what strings I'll be playing on that guitar, and have the setup performed with those strings on.

The tech needs to know what sort of music you play. A flatpicker, for example, may get a bit of buzz playing a guitar set up for a flesh-only fingerstylist. Similarly, if you play a lot with a capo, let the tech know this in order to make sure your strings aren't buzzing when you capo past the third fret. (I've had this happen.) If you use a heavy pick, that should be taken into consideration.

If you have another guitar with a perfect setup, take it in and ask that it be duplicated, especially if the guitar has the same scale as the one being set up.

The basic rule here is to communicate with the tech so that there's no guesswork involved.

[docwatsonfan]

I would take a look at frets.com and learn as much as you can

and buy a 6" steel ruler, and start measuring stuff

knowledge is power

[Nick S]

My opinion: If you are a beginner, "easy to play" is the most important thing. You should learn faster and better if your instrument is set up to be easy (with lighter strings, for example, than you may use in the future). As your playing develops over time, you'll know more about how you play, strings, action, tone, etc.

Nick S.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Dogma

Is it enough to say that I am a beginner and would like the instrument to play “as well as it can?”

Yes. Ideally, the person doing the actual setup work will listen/watch you play. That will give him or her a better indication of how to set it up for your playing style.

The advice to provide a repair person with specific dimensions is only valid for those who have specific preferences and know, quantitatively, what are those preferences.

The “Basic Set-Up” is $75. Is there anything (likely to be) included in that scope of work that I should ask to be able to approve before they do the work? Or should it be adequate or ask that anything above and beyond the basic scope needs to be discussed?

Different people have different definitions of what is included in a "Basic Set-up". It would make sense to understand what, exactly is included in that "Basic Set-up". I include adjusting of truss rod, if necessary, adjustment of string heights at the nut and saddle and a string change, if requested. (I don't do retail, so I request that the person bring with them a new set of whatever strings they want put on.) I do not include adjustment of intonation or any fret work. Some do. If a new nut or saddle is required, that is not included either.

I have an article entitled Basic Guitar Setup 101 that might be of interest to you: http://charlestauber.com/luthier/Res...May%202015.pdf

I would expect that anything included in the basic setup that you are having done won't need your approval. Any work that is required beyond that absolutely should not be done without your prior approval.

[rickcrna]

I have found John at the 12th Fret to be knowledgeable and very helpful regarding guitar repair although I haven’t had him do a set up on my guitars.

I take my guitars to Barrett Guitar Repair in the Lake Oswego, OR area for set ups and have been very pleased. Took both my Martins (HD-28 and a new OM-28) to him last summer for adjustments and set ups. In fact I will be receiving a new MFG Martin Custom 000-18GE next week and after a month or so of playing it plan to take it to Barrett for set up. His prices are fair and work is meticulous.
You can google his website for more info. I have no connection other than being a satisfied customer.

Rick

[RP]

Dogma: This is an excellent question so my question to you is this. You've been an AGF member for a year with only 17 posts. I think you're holding out on us. Keep these excellent posts coming and let's see if you can't get your count up...

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by Dogma

Okay, in need of help and clarification from more experienced AGF compatriots per below:

In reading through the recent thread on “What advice would you give to a beginner..” (or words to that effect), one of the most repeated suggestions is to shell out for a good set-up, especially on a new, or new-to-you guitar.

I have been playing for a little less than a year and purchased a new-to-me guitar last April, from a reputable shop in my region (not in my city). It is a nice guitar by a respected luthier. It is not a new instrument. I have recently been having some questions about various things I’m hearing on certain strings so, on reading the post referenced above, made a local appointment for a guitar “check-up” and set-up. The appointment is in March.

Subsequently, I have read through the thread started by the person who took a Martin in for set-up and got what the OP (and some others here) feel is poor tech-work which left the guitar in worse condition. What concerns me, vis-a-vis my own situation, is that many of the comments in this thread stress the importance of communication, and being very specific with the tech regarding ones' playing style and tolerance for action height, etc. As a beginner, I have to say that I don’t yet know what my playing style is, and I have no idea about my preferred set-up as I have had exactly one guitar, and it is my only point of reference! Of course, I have played others in stores, but not for long enough to have any clear sense of preferences.

So, what should I be telling the tech when I take the guitar in? Is it enough to say that I am a beginner and would like the instrument to play “as well as it can?” The “Basic Set-Up” is $75. Is there anything (likely to be) included in that scope of work that I should ask to be able to approve before they do the work? Or should it be adequate or ask that anything above and beyond the basic scope needs to be discussed? Any suggestions gratefully welcomed.

Secondly, I live in Portland, OR and have the appointment at 12th Fret, which is a repair shop I know has been around for a very long time. If anyone here knows of another place or person locally that I should consider or just know about for the future, I welcome that information as well.

Many thanks, in advance, for thoughts and suggestions.

The number one question is: What specific issues are you having with that guitar? Is it uncomfortable to play? Is the intonation off? Do the strings buzz or ping or go way out of tune when capoed?

Also, since you've just started, are you taking lessons? If so, what does your teacher say about the guitar's existing setup? (And if you're not taking lessons, may I suggest doing so, at least just for a while when you're starting out?)

[Dogma]

Thank you for all answers/suggestions thus far. Super helpful! I've downloaded the 101 doc Charles. I will look at my guitar with your diagrams and see what I can see.

The number one question is: What specific issues are you having with that guitar? Is it uncomfortable to play? Is the intonation off? Do the strings buzz or ping or go way out of tune when capoed?

Good questions. I will need to assess with the capo. I haven't played with it much lately so am not sure. The main issue I can objectively identify is that the low E string sounds kind of dead and un-resonant to me and the A does to some but lesser degree. I tried the listening test suggested in another thread, I think by Charles T, of playing the same note over three octaves on different strings. He suggested that the three notes should all ring and sustain similarly. The low E string note was noticeably less dimensional and resonant than the note played on the other strings. I do have issues with it buzzing too, but that could well be a function of my developing reach and not truly an issue with the guitar. In a way this gets back to what's at the heart of my original question - a lot of things are hard for me but to be expected as I am not a kid ; ) and am learning something new, so it's difficult to identify what can be traced to the guitar vs just me learning. I do use light strings. 12s. I used 11s for the sore finger stage, but have graduated!

I have started in-person lessons recently (Justin is awesome but not enough of a task-master!) and the teacher also suggested a set-up, but said it was not immediately crucial. He said things were ok where I am currently fretting but that adjustment would become necessary as I move down (up?) more toward the bridge.

As far as my 17 posts go - RP: be careful what you ask for!
I suppose the right answer is to say that I should be spending the time practicing. But if there was an AGF metric for number of minutes/day spent reading the forum, that might tell another story....! I have also received great advice from forum members whom I have PM'd w/specific questions.

[jswr450]

Pick what gauge strings you want, probably light, depending on the guitar. You want them to get the action at the nut correct so it's easy to play chords up there, think f, a minor, d, minor, c, so on, but without any buzz. I hold down the string between the 2nd and third fret, it should just barely clear the first fret when you do that. Barely. This way you aren't counting the neck relief in your measurement. You also dont want too much forward or back bow, I like a fairly straight neck. If the saddle is really high and the action is high at the 12th feet you can have them take it down a little, but not too much. A good setup makes a huge difference.

[jim1960]

You're a beginner so you're unlikely to know exactly what your needs are regarding a setup, nor can anyone else. Tell the tech you're a beginner and want the guitar to be as easy to play as possible. That will encourage you to play more, and playing more is how beginners move on to become intermediates. So that's it... as easy to play as possible.

[JohnW63]

Tell the tech you're a beginner and want the guitar to be as easy to play as possible.

Let me add to that, since that's about all you want, besides , " Why do these two strings seem to not ring and sound dead ? "

Tell the tech you're a beginner and want the guitar to be as easy to play as possible. WITHOUT getting so low they buzz.

As a beginner, you probably won't be going past the 12 fret at all, but, you SHOULD be able to easily fret every string on each fret space up to the 12th fret and get a clean note. That would be a worth while goal with a setup. ( This assumes you have progressed to the point that getting clean notes when you fret is not hard for you. )