Bose vs QSC with subwoofer

[Peter Z]

While I agree with ljguitar that personal experience cannot be replaced and you should try different systems I don't think that Bose column systems are more airy that a combination of K8 and B1200D. Later will give you more higher and deeper low frenquencies for sure.
I had 3 Bose columns before and now 2 S1s.
Large line arrays are a different thing but we are talking about a price of 30.000,- USD now and more than a few people to set it up.

If you have the chance compare the systems. Otherwise I still think adding one Berry sub will fit your needs. And there is not much to lose. The Berry is cheap and can be sold if you don't like it.

[zhunter]

Originally Posted by leew3

if you get up to 128db SPL your sub running out of gas is the least of your worries

A snare drum hit from a loud drummer will take you pretty close un amplified. It is not continuous though. I don't want to be next to a drummer that is that loud but it is not uncommon.

Unlike the tops which often deal with more transient instruments, the bottoms get the continuous bass. It takes a lot of energy to reliably reproduce bass. If a band is peaking in that 126 range (and not getting thrown out of the venue), then a sub might be called into service to produce high levels continuously and still have to handle serious bass drum peaks. Underpowered subs may add bass feel that may satisfy at some level but they have a tough time with clarity.

I still get better results shelving below 100hz. Clarity without mud. And then I can turn the bass up.

hunter

[zhunter]

I hear that extra presence in Bose systems. Not pleasing to my ear. Yes it grabs your attention with some wow factor, but for me it wears thin pretty quickly.

hunter

[lkingston]

I had the full Bose L1 Mark 2 setup for a while. I also had two B1 subwoofers, a B2 subwoofer and the Packlite amp in case I wanted to run all three subwoofers for large outdoor gigs. I used it with either a Bose T1 or Behringer XR series mixer.

Overall it sounded wonderful, but it wasn’t without it’s frustrations.

One frustration when using the T1 mixer was that these mixers have no channel high pass EQ, and with the B2 subwoofer there was just too much low end on the guitar and vocals. I never noticed this with one or two B1 subs, but with the B2 it was an issue. The Behringer XR mixers have high pass filters on each channel which cleared up the mud with the B2 sub.

Another frustration was hearing high frequencies with a standing audience. With a seated audience the sound was outstanding, but if the stage was low and people stood up, the highs would disappear. I found the rule of thumb was that from everywhere you could see the front grill of the column, the sound was great. As soon as you lost sight of the front of the column, the highs also disappeared. By the way this true of any of the column systems.

Another frustration was loud boisterous rooms. The “column behind you, no monitors” approach works incredibly well for listening levels for polite seated listening audiences but is just feedback city when you need more volume. This is also true of all the competing column systems.

Bringing it back to the original subject of a Bose L1 system vs a QSC with a subwoofer:

My estimation is that the Bose L1 is going to give more even coverage for a seated, polite listening audience, but that a system composed of maybe 3 QSCs (two high mounted FOH, one monitor) plus a subwoofer would be better for a loud standing crowd. As far as one QSC plus a sub goes: it would probably sound fine anywhere a single QSC would sound good but you needed a low end boost. I wouldn’t expect the coverage to be as good as a column.

[jseth]

No matter how good a QSC w/ a subwoofer sounds, it will still be FAR BEHIND the Bose rigs as far as dispersion... the QSC may sound great, so long as you're in that cone of dispersion; when you wander out of it, the volume and tone will drop off dramatically.

With my Bose L1 rig, the dispersion is greater than 180 degrees (I actually think it's closer to 210 than 180)... seriously, you walk anywhere in a room and the volume and sound is the same... absolutely ZERO drop off, with no hotspots.

Before you spend your money trying to make what you've got work, I'd suggest you walk around the room in which you are demo'ing the sub and mixer so you get a better idea of how the sound is covering your target area.

Yep, my Bose L1 Model II is pricey... but I've learned to "squeal once" at the price of a piece of gear and get exactly what I want, than to "make do" and keep squealing until I get what I wanted in the first place!

Good luck! Glad you're getting work for your duo...

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by DoryDavis

Thanks for these responses. Am I looking at this the right way- that having a sub woofer will allow the QSC to function more fully in the mid to highs, without the burden of pumping out the lows?

Yes. I think it's just a high pass at 100hz.

Rolls makes a tiny two way active crossover which is nice to have to balance the sub and tops. The Yorkville NX720s is a decent compact sub. The EV ZXA1 is smaller and lighter, but kind of underwhelming in comparison, but it might be a nice match for the K8.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by DoryDavis

If we in fact ran say the Behringer sub woofer with the K8, how close would that come to the hi fi Bose sound?

Most likely better with a decent board run by someone who has a basic understanding of how to EQ and mix.

Sure, it won't have 180 degrees of dispersion, but that could be covered with another K8 and you'd still spend far less than a column array. Honestly, it's not always optimal to cover every square inch of a place with sound, and not always great to have a column behind you at higher volumes.

Contrary to the hype, they don't defy the laws of physics. They can and will feed back, and cause issues in tight spots. How often do you have the recommended 6-8 feet behind the performers to place your tower at a bar gig? Seriously.

[Chriscom]

Contrary to the hype, they [Bose sticks] don't defy the laws of physics. They can and will feed back, and cause issues in tight spots. How often do you have the recommended 6-8 feet behind the performers to place your tower at a bar gig? Seriously.

A lot of truth to this. Now, I recently heard a solo acoustic/vocal guy playing wayyyyy too loud at a crowded, noisy, small to medium-sized bar. He was jammed up against the front of the bar--glass window behind him--and his L1 Model 2 was maybe a foot and a half behind him but about four feet off to the side. Zero feedback.

However, he obviously wasn't getting the 6-8 ft. depth behind him and his stick as recommended, and I was thinking there's no way this sounds great to him or "this is what the audience hears."

And it didn't--he was using IEMs.

[leew3]

Originally Posted by zhunter

I hear that extra presence in Bose systems. Not pleasing to my ear. Yes it grabs your attention with some wow factor, but for me it wears thin pretty quickly.

hunter

Good insight here as I hadn't thought about it this way before. As I've started to experiment with running a mixer into my S1 I noticed this. Adding a sub brought the overall sound back to a much fuller range that I like better. I'm debating whether this is worth lugging the sub along for small gigs. However, if our duo could play through the S1 with a sub and a mixer that's not bad for a small room.

[archerscreek]

Originally Posted by The Kid!

Most likely better with a decent board run by someone who has a basic understanding of how to EQ and mix.

Sure, it won't have 180 degrees of dispersion, but that could be covered with another K8 and you'd still spend far less than a column array. Honestly, it's not always optimal to cover every square inch of a place with sound, and not always great to have a column behind you at higher volumes.

Contrary to the hype, they don't defy the laws of physics. They can and will feed back, and cause issues in tight spots. How often do you have the recommended 6-8 feet behind the performers to place your tower at a bar gig? Seriously.

Yes, I'm in the camp that doesn't want an overly expansive degree of dispersion from a single location. If I need to I'll rig up a second speaker. And while I love the compact nature of 8" powered speakers, I wanted to avoid running a sub. So I went with a 12" powered speaker and am happy with the balance it allows.

Every system has its positives and negatives. And there are so many different options that work well for different people, it's hard to consider them all, figure out which might be the best fit for you, and not get a headache.

[varmonter]

We recently went with a bose system.
The thing with the bose sub was apparent to me.
An acoustic guitar in standard tuning Is going to
get so low. I beleive the bose crosses over at
a higher freq range to help compensate for the lack
of bass response from the array. Qsc k speakers
have to be set to ext sub to run with a sub.
You will get the secondary harmonics from
acoustic guitars but not the primary that you
hear in the bose. (most subs dont reproduce that high)This is why i think they (the bose)sound good with acoustic.
I think the k12 set to deep
with no sub sound even better. But if your playing
a bass in the group than a sub is crutial.