The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Build and Repair

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-14-2014, 06:09 AM
Scallywag Scallywag is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 477
Question Tools needed for an DIY re-fret? Fretwire size?

My Martin OM is in need of new frets so I'm thinking about using the opportunity to learn this skill. I'm comfortable with finishing work on frets but never have I attempted a full re-fret so I'm excited to give it a go. I only plan on doing this for my own guitar(s) so we're talking about, what, 1-2 times every five years? So, my questions are..

1.) For someone like me what tools am I going to need, at a minimum, to perform a quality re-fret and fingerboard rejuvenation? Which are essential? Which are perhaps unnecessary but recommended?

2.) I'll be using Evo gold fret wire. Any advice as to which wire size would be good to go with? This guitar is used for modern solo fingerstyle stuff... lots of hammer-ons, dynamic technical tricks, etc., played all over the neck. Basically no strumming on this instrument, should that matter. I'm thinking that a bigger/taller wire than the stock Martin size on this guitar would do me right. I like a nice low action.

FYI, the guitar has an unbound rosewood fretboard.

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-14-2014, 06:18 AM
B. Howard B. Howard is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Magnolia DE
Posts: 672
Default

A good set of fret pullers and a soldering iron to heat the frets before pulling are about the only mandatory tools since you already have a grip on leveling and polishing. A cut pair of nippers is nice to trim the frets back after you hammer them in. and of course some type of hammer, I like one with a plastic head.

For standard EVO replacement wire I usually use the FW74 from LMI.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-14-2014, 11:45 AM
Tom West Tom West is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 1,067
Default

My advice would be to do a refret on a beater first rather then start on your OM.
Tom
__________________
A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-15-2014, 06:43 AM
Ned Milburn Ned Milburn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 3,127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom West View Post
My advice would be to do a refret on a beater first rather then start on your OM.
Tom
+1 on that.

Pulling the frets cleanly is usually the most difficult.

Interesting, Brian prefers a plastic hammer, but I myself prefer a small metal-headed tack hammer. Each to his own; neither is wrong, both are good.

End nippers are essential, and you'll either have to buy a previously modified version or grind the face of it flat so that the bladed edge of the nippers can lie flush with the fingerboard.

I have never heated frets before removal, and have never had undue issues.

You should know that chip-out is common, especially with ebony fingerboards. Next worse for chip-out is rosewood. Maple usually pulls out without any chip-out.

So, be ready to CA the chips back into place and giving the fingerboard a light sanding to re-level the edges of the fret-slots before installing the new frets.
__________________
----

Ned Milburn
NSDCC Master Artisan
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-15-2014, 02:55 PM
Scallywag Scallywag is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 477
Default

Thanks for the replies. I don't really have a beater guitar to try this on. Guess I can maybe find something dirt cheap at the local flea market or something. I'll look around. I do have a cheap uke that might serve well for a trial run.

I'm confident that I have the skills to do this properly but, that said, I don't want to run into a pitfall resulting in extensive repair that's beyond my ability to remedy. I don't care much about aesthetics in this case, just playability and sound quality.

Two questions...

Do those little metal fret guards that stew-mac sells help to reduce chip-out? Just curious.

Also, should I expect the need to raise/shim the nut due to taller frets? I assume yes. Bone shim to way to go? What about the "bone dust + CA glue then re-file the nut slots solution" that I've heard about? I made the nut myself so I'm comfortable with setting the proper slot depth.

Thanks again.

Last edited by Scallywag; 07-15-2014 at 03:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-15-2014, 04:13 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scallywag View Post
Do those little metal fret guards that stew-mac sells help to reduce chip-out? Just curious.
"Back in the day" of working on a drafting board we used to call those "eraser shields". The slot in them is where you moved the eraser back and forth preventing erasure of things you wanted left unerased.

In my opinion, they are a poor alternative to using a tool that is shaped the right way for the job.

Quote:
Also, should I expect the need to raise/shim the nut due to taller frets? I assume yes.
Yes.

Quote:
Bone shim to way to go?
That's silly. Use wood veneer of the same wood from which the neck is made. If need be, you can stain the ends of the veneer to match the colour of the neck and be invisible. Felt markers work well and come in a zillion colours.

Quote:
What about the "bone dust + CA glue then re-file the nut slots solution" that I've heard about?
That will work.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-15-2014, 04:15 PM
Ned Milburn Ned Milburn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 3,127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scallywag View Post
Two questions...

Do those little metal fret guards that stew-mac sells help to reduce chip-out? Just curious.
I haven't used them. I can't imagine they would help avoid chip-out if one uses decent technique.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scallywag View Post
Also, should I expect the need to raise/shim the nut due to taller frets? I assume yes. Bone shim to way to go? What about the "bone dust + CA glue then re-file the nut slots solution" that I've heard about? I made the nut myself so I'm comfortable with setting the proper slot depth.
A new nut, rather than shimming the bottom or filling the slots, is always my first recommendation.
__________________
----

Ned Milburn
NSDCC Master Artisan
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-15-2014, 08:05 PM
John Arnold John Arnold is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,082
Default

I have shimmed many a nut with wood veneer, staining it to match the neck. As long as the shim is shallower than the slot that the nut rests in, it works just fine.
If it is a vintage guitar with the original bone or ivory nut, I like to fill the slots and recut them. But rather than using bone dust, I cut slivers of ivory or bone and glue them in place with CA. It is easier and works better if you deepen and square the bottom of the slot before gluing in the slivers.
The best way I have found to reduce chipping of the slots is to heat the fret with a soldering iron. Rather than rocking the fret pulling pliers, it is always better to squeeze them to lift the fret, working from one end of the fret to the other.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-16-2014, 01:30 AM
Frank Ford Frank Ford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 638
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned Milburn View Post
I have never heated frets before removal, and have never had undue issues.

You should know that chip-out is common. . .
I recommend that you try heating the frets. Most of us do that because it is just about the only way to get frets out without chipping ebony boards. Counterintuitive, maybe, but it works for certain.

And, yes, it is expected in our shop that we will do a majority of refretting on ebony fingerboards without needing to repair a single chip caused by fret removal.

Occasionally, we may pull a small chip, and if we do, we take that as a sign that the fret was not hot enough. Heat the next one hotter, and there's no repeat of the problem
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-16-2014, 09:18 AM
Frank Ford Frank Ford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 638
Default

Back to the original question - refretting. As with most repair work it's not about the tools.

Fretting is certainly one of those tasks that appears much easier done than said. While it's not uncommon for a beginner to get a decent fret job the first time, it's more predictable that there will be little troubles along the way for the first few dozen refret jobs. Sometimes the cumulative effect of those little troubles can be really difficult to overcome.

That warning aside, please do take a look at my FRETS.COM articles on refretting, where you'll see pretty much the entire kit of tools I use.

As with painting a room, surface preparation is the key to a good job. With the fingerboard surface properly leveled and ready, I think it's important to the point of necessity to get the frets seated well enough that only the lightest possible touch with a leveling block on the tops will true them up such that no re-crowning is needed.

GUITAR REFRETTING

SOME SOLUTIONS TO REFRET PROBLEMS

Just like playing guitar - it's not the instrument, it's the practice time. . .
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-16-2014, 11:48 AM
John Arnold John Arnold is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,082
Default

I used to say that it took me about 100 fret jobs before I really had a handle on it.
Lots of good advice here.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-16-2014, 02:34 PM
Ned Milburn Ned Milburn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 3,127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Ford View Post
I recommend that you try heating the frets. Most of us do that because it is just about the only way to get frets out without chipping ebony boards. Counterintuitive, maybe, but it works for certain.

And, yes, it is expected in our shop that we will do a majority of refretting on ebony fingerboards without needing to repair a single chip caused by fret removal.

Occasionally, we may pull a small chip, and if we do, we take that as a sign that the fret was not hot enough. Heat the next one hotter, and there's no repeat of the problem
I'll try it on a guitar in my shop now for a refret and see how it goes.

Cheers!
__________________
----

Ned Milburn
NSDCC Master Artisan
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-17-2014, 06:03 PM
Scallywag Scallywag is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 477
Default

Thanks again to everyone on this thread for your counsel. Yet again this forum proves to be an invaluable resource to so many people, certainly including the eager DIYers like myself. It's you professionals who are willing to share your wisdom that make this place what it is. I really appreciate that.

I'll let you all know how it goes!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-21-2014, 08:42 PM
phavriluk phavriluk is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Granby, CT
Posts: 2,913
Default learning curve

No one's mentioned paying a luthier to walk the OP through his first refret, as a tutorial. All the good intentions we have answering questions won't equal the benefits of being taught a process by someone skilled at it.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-21-2014, 11:06 PM
bnjp's Avatar
bnjp bnjp is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,426
Default

One of the tools I use that really makes a difference is a good fret end file. I have the one from stewmac, but it's a little too flimsy for my technique. This is my favorite one: http://store.fretguru.com/shop/ultimate-fret-end-file/

Good technique to get all the ends uniform is important for a neat job.
__________________
Bryan
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Build and Repair

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=