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  #31  
Old 08-21-2018, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Five Fourths View Post
I may be repeating what someone else has already said here, but Reverb is kinda stuck between a rock and hard place here. That is, Reverb has no way of knowing if the packaging was the actual cause of the damage. The guitar may have been--and others have certainly been--shipped with the type of minimal packaging you describe, before. I know, because I have received guitars that way and felt lucky that no damage was done.

So, what you have is a guitar that was insured--assuming it was shipped using Reverb's system--and it was damaged in shipping. One cannot speculate as to whether the shipping damage would have occurred had the packaging been different. There is no standard that the shipper must meet to be able say he/she met the shipping requirements. It becomes he-said, she-said regarding whether it was the seller's fault.

The package was shipped. It was damaged. The buyer was refunded. The seller was (or will be) refunded by insurance. The buyer thinks it's the seller's fault. The seller thinks it's the shipper's fault. A court of law might find the seller negligent, but the fact that the insurance company agreed to pay the claim tends to refute the argument that the seller was responsible. And, everyone is whole.

I'm not defending anyone, except Reverb. The problem is the seller's, if, in fact, his/her packaging is inadequate. Reverb can't let the buyer claim the seller is responsible, explicitly or implicitly.

FF
I will politely disagree. If I were a seller who was using an irresponsible company to ship my products, then the onus is on me to correct that situation, and it would be my fault in the end. The buck would stop with me.
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  #32  
Old 08-21-2018, 07:14 PM
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After contacting Reverb on the phone, a supervisor sent me the following email. While it indicates that their policy won't change at any time in the future, I believe that they are taking this seriously with a responsible action. Not much more I can do at this point, and I respect their concern in this matter.

"I can't apologize enough for the road block here with leaving this feedback on a refunded order. Since the order is closed, there is not a way for me to bypass the system to get the feedback added on the order.

In addition to addressing this matter directly with this seller, we've pinned an internal note on this seller's account with your feedback for this order. If this type of thing continues to happen, Reverb will take necessary actions.

Your feedback on our feedback system is much appreciated, and I've been taking part working with our team to update the feedback system to a better system.

If you have any other questions, or concerns, please let me know, and I'd be happy to help.

Thanks!"

Best,

Jonathan S. | Customer Engagement Supervisor


And here is my response:

Hi Jonathan,

Thanks for your response. I realize of course that changing your policy of allowing buyers to post a rating after a refund was given is out of your hands, and as you probably can guess, I wasn’t asking anyone to bypass the system.

That being said, I would think that Reverb should reconsider it’s rating policies. Let’s consider Amazon for instance. These days a ton of folks use those customer ratings as a barometer for making their purchase decisions. If a product or a seller isn’t up to par, it will show up in their ratings. Furthermore, Amazon knows that an informed customer is not only a smarter one but a loyal one as well.

While I have always respected Reverb’s dedication to protecting the buyer, this matter in particular has given me reason now to pause before making the decision to make a purchase in spite of a seller’s 5 star rating, as I now know that there just may be some very dissatisfied customers who, like myself, have been barred from voicing a legitimate complaint against that seller.

I will hope that Reverb will truly re-think its policy of the customer rating system, and on the other side of the coin, I am happy that Reverb is keeping tabs on sellers like this.

Again, thank you for your response.
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Last edited by Toby Walker; 08-21-2018 at 07:32 PM.
  #33  
Old 08-21-2018, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ripdotcom View Post
Without knowing the timeline of the story, I could not tell you how to handle it. Sometimes people get thrown into a panic and immediately assume that they are going to get stuck with the broken instrument. Just because they waited longer than you expected to reply (I would still like to know this, i do IT work and there is a lot of confudion on the proper amount of time to return an email) does not mean that they had an agenda to steal from you (as it were) nor a reputation that deserves tarnishing. Ultimately it all worked out it seems , perhaps they recieved a warning or maybe they had the chance to explain to reverb (now that it escalated out of where the buyer and seller could communicate in a timely manner). That being said, I would hope they learned a lesson and realize why it happened and put measures in place to help in the future.

Example, if something happened where I shipped something to someone and lets say i went fishing for a few hours, upon my return I may have an inbox with an email from an individual and a broker. To alleviate any possibility of confusion , i would have no choice but to choose one of the individuals to deal with, they may have simply chose reverb instead of you.

By the way, I had a Jeff Tweedy come in today and it was cracked on the top lower and rear bout, I felt that panic I spoke of earlier, but just for a moment, and some hours later its resolved. Gues i better pull it from my signature
It was a week without a single response from the shipper. No excuse.
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  #34  
Old 08-21-2018, 09:09 PM
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a week you say, well looks like reverb took care of it as they should have. Adding that 1 week to the first post would give many of us a timeline and a reference for fairness,. Believe it or not there are people who would have freaked out in hours what you patiently waited around a week for.
  #35  
Old 08-21-2018, 10:05 PM
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deleted post in the spirit of disengagement.

thanks to Toby for posting this, I will consider sending Reverb a message about this .

I find it odd that you got any backlash at all and snarky comments about this, but I will refrain from addressing anyone in particular. definitely don't like that there's no way to leave the necessary feedback.

thanks for sharing. cheers.

Scott
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Last edited by v32 finish; 08-21-2018 at 10:10 PM. Reason: deleted first post
  #36  
Old 08-21-2018, 10:33 PM
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Seems like Reverb is a safe place to buy gear. They took care of you in the end and are making notes about the buyer’s account. You’ve done as much as you can do and you got your money back without too much trouble. Sounds like a win.
  #37  
Old 08-21-2018, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by justonwo View Post
Seems like Reverb is a safe place to buy gear. They took care of you in the end and are making notes about the buyer’s account. You’ve done as much as you can do and you got your money back without too much trouble. Sounds like a win.
Would not call it a "win" for the OP. It isn't a win for anyone that makes a purchase from Reverb and then has to jump through hoops to get a refund for a damaged guitar due to improper packing. Time is money and the OP had to spend the time to chase down the seller, who did not respond, and then go through Reverb to resolve the issue. The OP also had to pack and return the guitar.

The potential Reverb Customer is relying on a bogus rating for a seller who does not package a guitar properly for shipping and does not respond to their buyer who received a damaged guitar.

That is a lose - lose proposition for Reverb and the potential Reverb Customer! How many people won't risk buying off of Reverb as a result of stories like this?
  #38  
Old 08-22-2018, 12:40 AM
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I think a simple addition of # cancelled or refunded transactions would be enough, for both items bought and items sold, no details or feedback - reality is, everyone was made full, the system worked, and whatever happened, whether intentional or accidental, is past. Its not a site for detailing or documenting transaction details publicly, nor do I think any of us would want it to be.
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  #39  
Old 08-22-2018, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by tadol View Post
I think a simple addition of # cancelled or refunded transactions would be enough, for both items bought and items sold, no details or feedback - reality is, everyone was made full, the system worked, and whatever happened, whether intentional or accidental, is past. Its not a site for detailing or documenting transaction details publicly, nor do I think any of us would want it to be.
This post is about a rating system that doesn't take into account bad behavior on the part of a seller and the inability to have it affect the sellers rating. The reality is that while what you stated is true, it leaves no accountability for the seller's poor performance and is not a part of the rating system. The seller has never responded to the buyer, even to this day. That is not right in my book nor is it fair to future buyers. Might be acceptable to some, but it wouldn't be to me and I would want to know about it before doing business with this person. As I said previously, YMMV.
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Last edited by rokdog49; 08-22-2018 at 05:29 AM.
  #40  
Old 08-22-2018, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by rokdog49 View Post
This post is about a rating system that doesn't take into account bad behavior on the part of a seller and the inability to have it affect the sellers rating. The reality is that while what you stated is true, it leaves no accountability for the seller's poor performance and is not a part of the rating system. The seller has never responded to the buyer, even to this day. That is not right in my book nor is it fair to future buyers. Might be acceptable to some, but it wouldn't be to me and I would want to know about it before doing business with this person. As I said previously, YMMV.

So, this thread is then about personal feelings and closure, I think a lot of you people simply have some real high expectations from individuals, hell, I never get involved this much in a thread but if you are buying guitars on the internet and you have not had experiences like this yet.... wait, it will happen. You cannot account for the sellers previous activity, this could be the one time the had a problem and obviously hell was raised with reverb, and in all honesty, I dont know ol' Toby, he could have sent them a nasty email to start with , tearing the practices of shipping and customer service apart. Did you consider that reverb may have directed them not to further communicate with the buyer? If I have a problem on an online auction site and I have not been able to reach the buyer, I go to the next step and once I see that the problem is being resolved, I see no need to communicate with the seller as they have already sohwn me the quality of how they do business.
I mean , even hearing the entire story only from 1 side still puts all kinds of doubt on the fullness of it, no matter how many posts i read I think the problem here is somebody wanted the customer service of a stranget at a certain level and they failed to meet that bar, please consider that the bar is already low on reverb and anyone who has issues likevcthis must know what they are getting into and expect something like this every now and then. I have probably purchased over 100 guitars online sight unseen , out of them perhaps 4-5 were returned due to damage, out of those maybe 1 or 2 were a pain in the neck but I deal with it , without the outrage and i do not wish failure upon those that have made correctable errors. I am sure Toby shared his views with them about this as well. But he doesnt want them to know, he wants the world to know, and i know how that feels to want to tell everyone how you were slighted, but it does no good and only prolongs the closure. Im sorry you were personally affected by this seller, I cannot relate to that, its just business.

Last edited by Kerbie; 08-22-2018 at 08:51 AM. Reason: Removed profanities
  #41  
Old 08-22-2018, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ripdotcom View Post
in all honesty, I dont know ol' Toby, he could have sent them a nasty email to start with , tearing the practices of shipping and customer service apart and they may have said "f this guy he is a total D". Did you consider that reverb may have directed them not to further communicate with the buyer? .
I can assure you that I conducted myself in a polite, respectful, and professional manner throughout this entire ordeal, which should come as no surprise to anyone that does indeed, know me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ripdotcom View Post
I think the problem here is somebody wanted the customer service of a stranget at a certain level and they failed to meet that bar, please consider that the bar is already low on reverb
I'm sorry, but you couldn't be more mistaken about Reverb's excellent reputation. I've done business through Reverb and have the utmost respect for that company. I simply pointed out my disappointment with their rating system. I communicated with a supervisor at Reverb, suggesting a way that they could improve that, and he was very professional in his response to my concern. Please read my comment above where I posted that exchange.
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Last edited by Toby Walker; 08-22-2018 at 07:11 AM.
  #42  
Old 08-22-2018, 06:42 AM
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I can assure you that I conducted myself in a polite, respectful, and professional manner throughout this entire ordeal, which should come as no surprise to anyone that does indeed, know me.
Good, you seem like a gentleman. looks like you did everything right. Still didnt work out , this was beyond your control, when you took the hands off the wheel and let reverb drive it was then in the hands of another, expecting something (even an apology) from the buyer at this point is folly. As has been pointed out, they are the ones out a guitar and surely the larger lesson was learned. I would count myself fortunate to not be stuck with the mess thy have on hand. Better luck next time I suppose.

BTW: I was really hoping to help you come to terms with the abuse they dealt upon you and wanted you to know that you arent alone. It happens to all of us at one time or another, a betrayl from a stranger cuts me like an eraser would, I just wrote that, you can use it.
  #43  
Old 08-22-2018, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ripdotcom View Post
...now yo uare saying someone reputation should be tarnished because one individual had a bad experience that you know of and the end result was a refund...
"that you know of" is the key phrase here. Is it 1 individual, or 100? We don't know, because there's no mechanism for customers who received refunds to relate their experience. That's all the OP is asking for. I'm not sure what you're arguing about.
  #44  
Old 08-22-2018, 07:59 AM
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Maybe Toby should have kept the guitar and left bad feedback if it's that important to him.
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  #45  
Old 08-22-2018, 08:25 AM
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This post has really turned into something hasn't it?
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