Question to the builders - "Resilient guitar"???

[lizzard]

Guys and Gals,

First let me say that neither "Takamine" nor "Carbon-fiber" are acceptable answers

Say one desired a guitar that would not fret (like that one?) the direct sun on a hot summer beach, or the 20% humidity on February in Chicagoland, or the 75% humidity in August in same. A guitar for the deck, the campfire and the house as well.

What would you use and would you "overbuild it" to the point of losing that "lightly built" responsiveness?

ASIDE - Steve, (sKt), I was kidding about the Luan

Chris
PS - For the record, ALL of my guitars are sitting in my Nootis-inspired closet at 54 Rh and 71.3 Fh

[dekutree64]

Heavily built won't save you from humidity trouble. More wood just means more stress. Heavily built mainly increases durability against impacts.

I just wrote about this here the other day. There are 4 main variables in play:
1. Expansion rate of the wood (dimensional change for a given RH% change, which determines how much stress is generated)
2. Brittleness of the wood (how much shrinkage stress can it take before splitting)
3. Glue area of the braces (how much expansion stress can the joints take before popping apart)
4. The moisture level it was braced at.

Moisture level is tricky because wood has a hysteresis effect. If you take an unbraced top that's been sitting in 60% and let it acclimate down to 40%, it will still be more swollen than if you'd acclimated it from 20% up to 40%. So you should have a standard procedure one way or the other. I prefer acclimating from dry up to the control humidity.

For a humidity-proof guitar, try redwood or cedar soundboard braced in 30% RH, Honduran mahogany back/sides braced in 45%, straight grained mahogany or Spanish cedar neck, rosewood fingerboard. Make sure you file the fret ends flush in low humidity so they don't stick out (or do what I do and adjust their lengths to a touch narrower than the board before you install them). I'd say that would tolerate a range of 10-90% RH. Maybe up to 100%, especially with 5/16" braces rather than 1/4".

[Bruce Sexauer]

Quartersawn Honduras mahogany with rosewood fingerboard and bridge. 00 or smaller. Light build.

[Pat Foster]

Small would indeed be better. Narrow body like an 00 in a 12 fret configuration would get you a longer body than a 14 fret.

Perhaps avoid cross or ladder bracing in the top or back.

Pat

[printer2]

Laminated back and sides?

[Rod True]

Unless you plan on leaving in those environments for extended periods of time (like more than 8-10 hrs) you shouldn't have to worry about those extremes effecting the guitar.

Care is important and as long as you care for the instrument you shouldn't have to worry. Neglecting to care for the instrument (you seem to know what's required) will render all the usual impact from high or low RH as well as heat...

Keep it out of the sun when not in use, and not cooking in a vehicle in the case. Make sure you have a case humidifier for the low RH and get it back to your humidity controlled closet ASAP in high RH.....Care for it right and you'll be good to go.

Cedar and Honduran Mahogany (as the pros have already mentioned) render about as stable a combination as possible.

[lizzard]

Originally Posted by printer2

Laminated back and sides?

See,... I thought I had addressed the Luan thing.

Thanks to all who have responded.

1 - All hog.
2 - All walnut.
3- Either with a Cedar top.

What about Koa?

Thanks as we continue.

Chris

[Howard Klepper]

I would decline the commission.

[lizzard]

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

I would decline the commission.

With all respect. Good to know. As Clint once stated "A man has to know his limitations."

[Tim McKnight]

Originally Posted by lizzard

With all respect. Good to know. As Clint once stated "A man has to know his limitations."

I'm not so sure its a limitation of man but more accurately a limitation of materials. I know you said no CF but IMO that material may be the best choice for your extreme width of conditions. I'm pretty sure one could play a CF guitar in the salt wash shower on South Beach at high noon in August.

[lizzard]

Originally Posted by Tim McKnight

I'm not so sure its a limitation of man but more accurately a limitation of materials. I know you said no CF but IMO that material may be the best choice for your extreme width of conditions. I'm pretty sure one could play a CF guitar in the salt wash shower on South Beach at high noon in August.

You are right. I openly apologize if my reply was "snarky."

Chris

[dneal]

Great question, and thanks to the luthiers who responded.

Here is an experience I had, if anyone finds it useful...

I bought a spruce/rosewood Larrivee parlor for a tour in Afghanistan. It was chosen because portability and durability were important, but it was under $1k and I wouldn't feel horrible if it didn't survive.

It was:

- loaded into a container in Colorado (20 degrees)
- flown to Kandahar (115 degrees ambient temp on the airfield, where it sat for 10 days or so)
- spent a year in Kandahar, temperature ranging from 115 degrees to 30 degrees and humidity ranging from 20-60 percent
- repeated shipping conditions from Kandahar to Colorado.

It handled the climate very well, aside from some sharp fret ends from fingerboard shrinkage. Nothing came unglued and nothing cracked. One fret needed tapped back down with a hammer to cure some buzz.

I assumed it survived from being overbuilt (and I still think that), but the comments lead me to think the size might have been a factor as well.

[printer2]

Originally Posted by lizzard

See,... I thought I had addressed the Luan thing.

Thanks to all who have responded.

1 - All hog.
2 - All walnut.
3- Either with a Cedar top.

What about Koa?

Thanks as we continue.

Chris

And who mentioned Luan? I hardly think of Tim's guitars as Luan even though he laminates double sides. As far as backs go a good laminate may give you the longevity that you are looking for. Will it come at an acceptable cost? Given two layers of quality wood and glued enough askew so no crack propagates from one layer to the other, hard to see the shame involved.

As the saying goes, I can give you good, cheap, fast, but you can only select two. You want it lightly built, then some help may be needed on the engineering front if the temperature and humidity requirements are to be met.

[lizzard]

Originally Posted by printer2

And who mentioned Luan? I hardly think of Tim's guitars as Luan even though he laminates double sides. As far as backs go a good laminate may give you the longevity that you are looking for. Will it come at an acceptable cost? Given two layers of quality wood and glued enough askew so no crack propagates from one layer to the other, hard to see the shame involved.

As the saying goes, I can give you good, cheap, fast, but you can only select two. You want it lightly built, then some help may be needed on the engineering front if the temperature and humidity requirements are to be met.

Sorry, the "Luan" ref was an inside joke between Steve and I.

Chris

[redir]

LOL I would probably decline the commission too or if I did build it then it would come as is with no warrenty. I would use laminated back and sides with a double top or sandwich Nomex top.