Dual acoustic pickups, how to??

[Draper B]

I recently purchased one of Gibson's new G45 models, It came equipped with a Fishman Sonitone, which is ok, but a bit shrill for my main gig player... so I decided to order a Prestige 330 by JJB electronics(similar to K&K pure mini), now I plan to install the 330 when it arrives, but I wanna leave the stock fishman installed, so that got me thinking about running both with a blend option, so I researched and found Schatten makes a 2+2 endpin preamp that accommodates two pickups, but I'm unsure how they connect, do they plug in, do I solder to the endpin preamp? Also, will I need to remove the preamp of the fishman and just wire the under saddle directly to the endpin preamp? Any thoughts or experience on this would be awesome... and as a side query, anyone here use the prestige 330? Any good? Thanks y'all!!

[lowrider]

I can't help you with using the Sonotone and JJB as dual pickups. But just a couple of weeks ago I took the Sonotone out of my Martin Road Series and installed a JJB.

It was very easy especially since I could loosen the battery box to install the output jack. I did two practice sessions, first with just the cardboard template, then with the sensors held on with blue tack. Then I put on the superglue gel and stuck the landing. I did use two chopsticks instead of my bridge pins. It gave me a long way to line it right up.

The difference between the Sonotone is like night and day. In my opinion, if you have to JJB, you won't want to use the Sonotone. I know that I don't!

[Doug Young]

I've not seen a Sonotone in person, but if its like what I see online, it has a separate output jack, so you could just replace the output jack with something like the Fishman Switchjack that supports 2 sources. Put the JBBs on the ring, and use an external preamp to blend. I'm not certain, but I don't think the Schatten preamp blends onboard, so you'd still have 2 outputs, and need to blend externally with it as well (usually the best idea anyway). The Schatten is an open question tho, since you would have no idea if it's a good match for the Fishman pickup. Maybe, maybe not, you don't know what EQ is being done in either preamp.

Just my opinion, but I don't usually find that a UST+SBT is a very useful combination as a dual source. They both pickup the same location, and dont end up sounding that different (tho the SBT picks up body percussion, etc). Ideally dual source setups use pickups that are different enough that they offset each other. Mag+SBT works nice. Anything+ a mic works nice. All personal taste tho, and you never know what will sound good to you until you try.

You might also check out just using ToneDedexter with your Sonotone, it's exactly the kind of pickup that ToneDexter can make a dramatic impact on.

[Draper B]

Thanks Doug... not sure how I got two posts the same here lol... awesome info, thanks so much... the Schatten jack is a dual source and has 2 volume thumbwheels mounted in the soundhole, a volume for each source... I may just use the jack coming with the JJB tho, I hear it's stereo, and what effect I may go for now is to have both the Piezos and the UST coming into the JJB jack stereo and use a stereo cable running to a splitter at my acoustic amp where I'll have the JJB into one channel and the fishman into another channel, then I can use chorus or other effects on one channel only if I wish, and use my amp as a preamp... I'm gonna do some pondering over it, and check out some more of what you've said about how you recommend... thanks again for the advice!!

[GuitarLuva]

You can achieve what you're looking for with the Schatten Artist plus 2 preamp. You would have to desolder the Fishman from the stock jack and solder it to the Schatten jack along with the JJB. The Schatten jack has solder pads on it for 2 pickups and is easy to do as long as you know how to solder. Your blend option would be the volume control for each pickup. I would certainly remove all the other unnecessary Fishman stuff afterward if you were going to do this. The Sonitone is probably my least favorite UST (not that I really like any of them) but you can use the JJB and only use the Sonitone for higher volume scenarios where the SBT might feedback.

[lowrider]

You seem to really want to do the dual pickups but I'll ask you to try this before you go through all that.

Remove the UST and tape it to the side of the guitar.

Next, remove the Sonotone output jack and tape it to the back of the guitar.

Install a new bone saddle and play the guitar acoustically and compare it to how it sounded with the UST in place

Install the JJB. Play it and compare it to how it sounded with the Sonotone.

Now you can decide if it's worth keeping the Sonotone.

[jonfields45]

If you can swing the cost of a ToneDexter, it will clean up the Sonitone nicely and you won't need to modify your guitar. IRs really excel at making a UST sound great.

I see them used on eBay for ~$300 every month or so.

[Draper B]

Lowrider, thanks for the input, you bring me to something I was going to ask but forgot... how much resonance/sound transfer am I losing through that transducer strip under my Saddle?? I would think it makes a significant difference, kinda defeats the point of having a nice hard bone saddle if I have a soft flexible piece of braided steel between it and where it resonates with the guitar... I absolutely will try it solo first, and maybe the sound of the guitar acoustically will prompt me to leave the UST out... but where the wire went through the top there will now be a hole left behind, won't all my tone leak and drip down through that hole and pool into the body of my guitar? 🤣

[Draper B]

Thanks to John Feild for the input... I can't afford one right now, but I'd be interested in trying it in some of my other guitars after I pay for this Gibson acoustic and get the Les Paul I have on hold... Also thanks to GuitarLuva for your input... I really like the Schatten Jack, and it's made here in good old Canada!!

[lowrider]

Originally Posted by Draper B

Lowrider, thanks for the input, you bring me to something I was going to ask but forgot... how much resonance/sound transfer am I losing through that transducer strip under my Saddle?? I would think it makes a significant difference, kinda defeats the point of having a nice hard bone saddle if I have a soft flexible piece of braided steel between it and where it resonates with the guitar... I absolutely will try it solo first, and maybe the sound of the guitar acoustically will prompt me to leave the UST out... but where the wire went through the top there will now be a hole left behind, won't all my tone leak and drip down through that hole and pool into the body of my guitar? ��

You've got it right, especially about the tone dripping out of the hole in the bridge!

Every guitar is going to be different but I think that removing the UST has at least as much effect on tone as changing the saddle material, changing bridge pins, strings, or your pick. And you may or may not like it.

I just got my first amp, a Fishman Loudbox Mini, so I don't know a whole lot about this stuff, but I took the Sonotone out of my Martin GPCRSG almost a year ago. I've had that guitar for almost three years and first I just took out the UST and the effect was big and it was positive. Then I took out the sound-hole pre-amp controls, figuring that that weight hanging on the soundboard couldn't be doing me any good. I couldn't hear any difference with that one. Just recently I put a JJB pickup in. It sounds wonderful through the Loudbox no matter how I adjust the amp, it might sound different but it always sounds really good plugged in and acoustic.

This summer I got a great deal on a GPCX, again with the Sonotone. This time I just took out the UST and taped it to the side of the guitar. This guitar stays at my Upstate house, but I brought it back home and put the UST back to try it with the new amp. Using the tone control in the guitar and the controls on the amp, I was able to get it to sound pretty good, but it never sounded as good as the JBB pickup.

That's why I think that if you put the JJB in, you'll never use the Sonotone. Maybe you could try pairing the JJB with a soundhole pick-up and be able to switch for some electric sounding lead playing!