K&K passive or onboard preamp

[rschultz]

I've used a K&K for a number of years, usually in a dual source along with an Anthem or mag, etc. I've always ran it passive onboard, and then boost the signal at my pedalboard or in a preamp DI, etc. I couldn't power it since it was a 2nd source next to the primary source having power. But I might be moving away from that and could power the K&K onboard if I wanted.

Would an onboard K&K preamp be better than what I am doing out-board? My guitar cable is a 12-15' stereo cable.

[Lawliet]

So you install your k&k on the ring terminal on a jack and you want that to be powered am I correct?

[rschultz]

No, the active source has to go on the tip because of the jack switch. The 2nd source goes on the ring.

[Neon Soul]

For what it's worth I run a K&K onboard system with a mag in a stereo setup.

I'll tell you what I use and my thoughts on it and you can take what you need from that.

I use the K&K Powermix Trinity system, which is the onboard system with the undersaddle, pure pickups, trinity mic, all going into a preamp with gain, treble, mids, and bass for each channel.

I am running a Fishman Rare Earth Humbucker on the ring terminal.

My K&K signal goes through a few pedals to a Headway EDB-2 preamp, for further EQ tweaking and anti-feedback control.

The Fishman is mounted under the E and A strings and goes through a POG 2 octave pedal for a faux bass effect. This is run through the second channel on the Headway and blended into the mixed DI out.

Now, my thoughts on the K&K unit. It sounds very good on it's own, without external preamp, but is quite feedback prone and has a nasty midrange that needs tamed, due to the piezo and Pure Minis.

Quality wise, it's not great. The board is made with very cheap SMT components and K&K have actually glued them in, as well as soldered.

I know this because I had to get components on my board replace when they crapped out. My tech was really not impressed with the build quality, or the fact he had to melt a bunch of glue to get them out.

I emailed K&K about a repair and essentially got the answer that, since I'm in the UK, they weren't going to do anything as they have no repair guys here. No sympathy, no apologies that one of their most expensive pickup products was broken. All I got was one line email responses with a heavy overtone of "We don't really give a ****."

So in short, the onboard systems sound good, and will work for what you are doing, but IMO you can find a better built product elsewhere and from a company that takes care of their customers.

[rschultz]

Originally Posted by Neon Soul

For what it's worth I run a K&K onboard system with a mag in a stereo setup..

The Fishman is mounted under the E and A strings and goes through a POG 2 octave pedal for a faux bass effect. This is run through the second channel on the Headway and blended into the mixed DI out.

Thought about doing this. But then I found the boss OC-3. It has an adjustable low pass filter which would allow me to use it in a normal orientation, but only use the lower 2 strings like you do. It also has a Direct out, which I can mix as a full spectrum 2nd source. I haven't tried this, but it's on my list...

[Neon Soul]

Originally Posted by rschultz

Thought about doing this. But then I found the boss OC-3. It has an adjustable low pass filter which would allow me to use it in a normal orientation, but only use the lower 2 strings like you do. It also has a Direct out, which I can mix as a full spectrum 2nd source. I haven't tried this, but it's on my list...

I used to use the OC-3 as well.

Worked fine, and I still use it on electric, but I didn't like that the bass notes got weaker leading up to the cutoff point.

Also, the low pass filter on the POG-2 is indispensable for me, whether I want more cut for an electric bass sound, or a really thumpy double bass sound with some of the 2nd octave down dialled in as well.

[dberkowitz]

Technology changes....as such there is no good reason for mounting any onboard preamp in an instrument. It's inefficient, too as it is dedicated to one instrument whereas if you put money into a better quality outboard preamp/DI you can use it on whatever instrument you plug in.

[joeguam]

rshultz, you and I have gone through the wringer trying to customize the pure mini to fit our needs haven't we?

Related to your question, I've evolved a rule that I've noticed has held up and hasn't changed (for my needs) in approx. 350-400 gigs: Unless there's a need to continually adjust my signal between multiple settings, handle all processing off the instrument.

So the key word here being multiple settings. For example, if I just need to increase volume for a solo, I use a boost pedal for that because it's just switching it on, then off. But if you need to boost the high EQ for one song; then for another song you have to cut the high EQ and also cut the mid EQ; then for another song you have to just boost the bass EQ; then yeah, it makes sense to have the controls for these changes right at your finger tips.

But if you don't have this need and can make your setting changes with a kick of a pedal, it's much easier to do it off-board the guitar for a couple of reasons. For one, accuracy - especially if your making the change mid-song. Two, much easier to troubleshoot off-board at a gig. And three, much easier to change out processing (i.e. effects, EQ, etc.).

Hope this helps.

[rschultz]

Thanks for the responses. Yes I agree outboard processing is better for a lot of reasons as long as it doesn't impact the tone or functionality for the user. That seems to be the case for me.

[jrjones]

My advanced jumbo is at the shop having an ultrapure system installed. I'll report back once I've got it back and plugged it in.

[autoplay]

Checking in on the install.

[varmonter]

Originally Posted by Neon Soul

For what it's worth I run a K&K onboard system with a mag in a stereo setup.

I'll tell you what I use and my thoughts on it and you can take what you need from that.

I use the K&K Powermix Trinity system, which is the onboard system with the undersaddle, pure pickups, trinity mic, all going into a preamp with gain, treble, mids, and bass for each channel.

I am running a Fishman Rare Earth Humbucker on the ring terminal.

My K&K signal goes through a few pedals to a Headway EDB-2 preamp, for further EQ tweaking and anti-feedback control.

The Fishman is mounted under the E and A strings and goes through a POG 2 octave pedal for a faux bass effect. This is run through the second channel on the Headway and blended into the mixed DI out.

Now, my thoughts on the K&K unit. It sounds very good on it's own, without external preamp, but is quite feedback prone and has a nasty midrange that needs tamed, due to the piezo and Pure Minis.

Quality wise, it's not great. The board is made with very cheap SMT components and K&K have actually glued them in, as well as soldered.

I know this because I had to get components on my board replace when they crapped out. My tech was really not impressed with the build quality, or the fact he had to melt a bunch of glue to get them out.

I emailed K&K about a repair and essentially got the answer that, since I'm in the UK, they weren't going to do anything as they have no repair guys here. No sympathy, no apologies that one of their most expensive pickup products was broken. All I got was one line email responses with a heavy overtone of "We don't really give a ****."

So in short, the onboard systems sound good, and will work for what you are doing, but IMO you can find a better built product elsewhere and from a company that takes care of their customers.

Sorry they treated you badly.
I too have the kk soldered to the ring.
I use a baggs m80. and thought i might
want to use the kk as a dual source.
I havnt. i dont have the trinity just the mini. I found the kk fine for low volume
gigs.But most of my playing is with
the band and the sbt just doesnt work
well for me. so i end up using the mag
all the time.

Originally Posted by dberkowitz

Technology changes....as such there is no good reason for mounting any onboard preamp in an instrument. It's inefficient, too as it is dedicated to one instrument whereas if you put money into a better quality outboard preamp/DI you can use it on whatever instrument you plug in.

pretty much sums it up for me.
Generally outboard pres are much better
quality and have more features .
and no batteries (and brace busting bags) to contend with.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by rschultz

I've used a K&K for a number of years, usually in a dual source along with an Anthem or mag, etc. I've always ran it passive onboard, and then boost the signal at my pedalboard or in a preamp DI, etc. I couldn't power it since it was a 2nd source next to the primary source having power. But I might be moving away from that and could power the K&K onboard if I wanted.

Would an onboard K&K preamp be better than what I am doing out-board? My guitar cable is a 12-15' stereo cable.

Hi rs

I've never found an internal preamp (onboard) of equal quality or flexibility when compared with an outboard version. I've had several semi-high quality internal preamps (like the Baggs after market dual source internal preamp which I used for years).

If you can live with an internally preamplified rig, then more power to you.

I should add, I also used an external Pendulum module preamp with the Baggs dual source, and that signal went into a 6 space rack with single space compressor, ⅓ octave EQ, mixer, etc to finally get the sound I wanted.

I replaced ALL that with my K&K dual source (passive) and a Raven PMB preamp (or sometimes my DTAR Solstice) which reigned in my rig for 15 years. That usually sounds amazing compared to other rigs and I can live with it.

Only recently did I move to a ToneDexter (and left all the internal gear installed on all my acoustics).

Some people think simpler is better. But I play with bands, ensembles, and never found a simple pickup internal rig which would give me the adjustability I need for moving from venue to venue.










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[phcorrigan]

How many times have you seen someone with a guitar with internal electronics find out they have a dead battery, and need to remove the strings to change it (assuming they have a spare)?

This is my primary reason for not wanting an internal preamp. The second reason is that my ToneDexter doesn't need it.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by phcorrigan

How many times have you seen someone with a guitar with internal electronics find out they have a dead battery, and need to remove the strings to change it (assuming they have a spare)?

This is my primary reason for not wanting an internal preamp. The second reason is that my ToneDexter doesn't need it.

Hi phc

Internal batteries is only one reason I avoid internal preamps (and not the main one). I'm smart enough to get a sense of how long the battery will last and change it.

My primary reason for using external preamps is external preamps allow more adjustment, and interconnect ability with other gear for gigs. I have enjoyed the capability to feed the house a signal and then feed myself an additional feed which I can run to a stage amp as my personal monitor.

Get a good preamp, and you have not only preampfification, but better tone adjustment/EQ, a direct-box built in, and likely ground lift and phase reverse (not to mention phantom power for powering internal mics).

If you need high quality plug-n-play, ToneDexter offers it (it's not a magic bullet, just a great solution and very natural sounding).