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  #16  
Old 07-09-2020, 10:17 PM
Jeff Scott Jeff Scott is offline
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I am greatly looking forward to seeing this weekend's race. When was the last time there were two consecutive F1 races at the same venue? It will be interesting to see if/how the teams have improved since last week, and on the same track we can see this best.
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  #17  
Old 07-12-2020, 09:14 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Default black out

So was I.

All set up and ready at 2.00 - then. black. Total power cut !

Power came back on seconds before 4.00 news to tell me what happened - Arghhhh !
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  #18  
Old 07-12-2020, 10:03 AM
AX17609 AX17609 is offline
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Good race, although the outcome was never in doubt. One thing I don't get about Formula 1 is why teammates wreck each other. Isn't the idea of "teamwork" to work as a team? If I were an owner, heads would roll.
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  #19  
Old 07-12-2020, 12:50 PM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AX17609 View Post
Good race, although the outcome was never in doubt. One thing I don't get about Formula 1 is why teammates wreck each other. Isn't the idea of "teamwork" to work as a team? If I were an owner, heads would roll.
Yes, up to a point.

To get to that stage in racing you have to have a "win or die" attitude, and so there have been many instances of team drivers competing with each other.
Not least was Hamilton and Rosberg - no love lost there!

Same thing with Webber and Vettel in the Red Bull team - I remember him winning and saying - "not bad for a No.2 driver !"
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  #20  
Old 07-12-2020, 10:48 PM
Jeff Scott Jeff Scott is offline
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Then we have types who do stuff like:

Deliberately crashing into your opponent to ensure you win the championship - Senna did this to Prost.
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  #21  
Old 07-13-2020, 12:28 AM
Brucebubs Brucebubs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Scott View Post
Then we have types who do stuff like:

Deliberately crashing into your opponent to ensure you win the championship - Senna did this to Prost.
1994 - Adelaide Grand Prix - Schumacher had a 1 point lead over Damon Hill in the championship at the last race of the season.

Schumacher goes off but somehow manages to come back on track just enough make contact with Hill's car before spearing into the barriers.

Hill's front suspension is damaged.

Both DNF.

Schumacher wins the championship.

You decide ...

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  #22  
Old 07-13-2020, 08:09 AM
Jeff Scott Jeff Scott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucebubs View Post
1994 - Adelaide Grand Prix - Schumacher had a 1 point lead over Damon Hill in the championship at the last race of the season.

Schumacher goes off but somehow manages to come back on track just enough make contact with Hill's car before spearing into the barriers.

Hill's front suspension is damaged.

Both DNF.

Schumacher wins the championship.

You decide ...

Nice! You example even has video proof (I didn't look for any of the Senna/Prost event ).
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  #23  
Old 07-13-2020, 08:14 AM
Jeff Scott Jeff Scott is offline
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You inspired me to find this:

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  #24  
Old 07-13-2020, 12:48 PM
Ozzy the dog Ozzy the dog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AX17609 View Post
Good race, although the outcome was never in doubt. One thing I don't get about Formula 1 is why teammates wreck each other. Isn't the idea of "teamwork" to work as a team? If I were an owner, heads would roll.
Ironically, in any car in F1 the only person you are racing is your teammate. If others beat you, you can claim it's because they have a better car but your teammate is the only one on a level plane.

They might be in the same team but they're often far from being mates. If you're in the best car then it's a two horse race for the championship. Then you can adopt one of three strategies to become champion: -
1. Be better than your teammate and win on merit
2. Cheat by any means - running your teammate off etc
3. Get your team to tell your teammate they are not allowed to beat you.
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  #25  
Old 07-13-2020, 02:22 PM
HodgdonExtreme HodgdonExtreme is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Scott View Post
You inspired me to find this:

^In my opinion, that was Senna's 4th world championship, which he was robbed of, on account of intrasport politics. Other drivers were NOT penalized for having done the same thing - both BEFORE and AFTER Senna was penalized, costing him a world championship title.

But it's not a good example of Senna purposely crashing Prost, because Senna NEEDED to finish and win that race - so damaging his own car would be an extremely risky consequence of "purposely" wrecking Prost.

Instead, consider the 1990 race, also at Suzuka, where Senna would win the world championship for sure, if Prost didn't finish. Here, Senna literally had nothing to lose and everything to gain by wrecking Prost. You could argue Prost left an opening. You could argue that, having been on Pole, Senna should have had the outside line on the grid... Either way, they touched, both retired, and Senna won the championship.


Last edited by HodgdonExtreme; 07-13-2020 at 02:30 PM.
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  #26  
Old 07-13-2020, 02:53 PM
MartinGibsonFan MartinGibsonFan is offline
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All's fair in Love, War and Formula I auto racing.

J
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  #27  
Old 07-14-2020, 12:45 PM
Jeff Scott Jeff Scott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinGibsonFan View Post
All's fair in Love, War and Formula I auto racing.

J
See Renault's claims against Racing Point. Daniel lost out to them, so what's the best thing to do? Claim wrongdoing.
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  #28  
Old 07-14-2020, 12:49 PM
MartinGibsonFan MartinGibsonFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Scott View Post
See Renault's claims against Racing Point. Daniel lost out to them, so what's the best thing to do? Claim wrongdoing.
That's just a lawsuit.

I'm talking about murder, death, and dying and that sort of stuff.

J
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  #29  
Old 07-14-2020, 02:01 PM
HodgdonExtreme HodgdonExtreme is offline
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Since we're still talking about aggressive F1 driving, and Senna, and because I love Senna (next dog's name), this is a great and relevant clip:






Longer/better version where Ayrton gets more specific about the 1990 Suzuka incident:

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  #30  
Old 07-14-2020, 02:18 PM
MartinGibsonFan MartinGibsonFan is offline
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After watching that longer version of Jackie Stewart's interview with Senna, I'm not surprised Senna is no longer living.

All those incidents (collisions) Jackie asked Senna about, perfectly reasonable answers for a very aggressive, competitive, take risk driver such as Senna.

I haven't reviewed how Senna died on the track (I believe he just spun out with no other incidental contact, but I could be wrong).

These types of drivers are good and win races, but that opening that the race car driver sees when they want to pass is key.

Senna seemed to be too aggressive to last long on the Formula I circuit, totally in my opinion.

J
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