Does Anyone Else Half-Wrap Strings?

[Hoyt]

I stretch string, wrap it around post by hand a time or two on bass strings, and then insert string post hole. Give it a few more wraps on treble strings.

But, like the half-wraps unless like someone above you plan on tuning down at some point.

[rllink]

Interesting and I'm sure it works for people who do that but I probably won't. For practical purposes I'm not seeing the benefit. I'm just not into being different. But I do enjoy seeing what other people come up with.

[DaveG]

Seems like it would put more stress on the string where it bends on the sharp edge of the hole. 2 or 3 wraps would lessen that stress considerably. But if you're not breaking strings it obviously works. Not for me, though.

[HogsNRoses]

Mark, have you tried this with round core strings?

I’ve done this by accident, either when I trimmed a string too short, or wound up the peg after pulling tight without thinking, or when swapping strings to a guitar with longer scale length. The strings held fine.

Shouldn’t be a problem with alternate tunings because the peg doesn’t move that far.

[ascotia]

One wrap and a lock for me. My guitar stays in tune like a champ and I also like the way it looks.

[Brucebubs]

I can totally see why it works but I'm pretty happy with this method I posted just recently - https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=633073

[EZYPIKINS]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Not planning on ever tuning down, are ye?

I use open G, open D, full step down to D as well as DGCGCD. Don't have a problem.

Actually, with less of a wind. I find there is less chance of wrap slippage.

So, retuning after a drop tune. Recovery is mush faster.

Something I learned by using Locking Sperzel's on my G&L guitars.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Mark Stone

AGFriends, be brave! You can do it! Escape, and be free from the evil string wrapper cult!!

Hi Mark…
I like efficiency as much as the next guy. Did it like your pics until about 2005 when I started implementing alternate tunings, always with the guitar I had in hand.

I now wind strings nearly the opposite from you…and for a reason.

For people who do a lot of alternate tunings on a single guitar, frequently retuning up/down there is constant danger when retuning to standard of popping the 3rd string, and occasionally the 1st or 2nd string. I had accepted the fact it was probably the risk for a single guitar person.

I'm not talking about dropped D, but full on open tunings, and alternate tunings (Open D or Open Dmin are perfect examples) stress strings to the breaking point or work the string over the hole in the tuning shaft. It's kind of like bending a paper-clip back-n-forth till it breaks.

David Wilcox (from Minnesota) will go through a dozen re-tunings in a concert tuning on the fly, and he discovered/shared in about 1995 that if you wrap the wound strings all the way to the bottom of the shaft it stops it. I was this in his video instruction in about 2006.

In a live workshop I attended in Colorado a few years back (2010ish) someone asked if he still does overwinds and he reiterated the point that it only takes a bit longer to wind them, and it stops string breakage. For live performers it brings security.

He also changes to fresh strings before his gigs.

It also means I don't need a backup guitar on stage. On the 3rd string I usually get at least 4-6 wraps, but often just take it all the way to the bottom of the shaft as well. And I don't always change strings before gigs.

He speculates it unwinds/winds the string off/onto the shaft more gradually, increases the break angle, and keeps the string from rolling the windings over the (sometimes) sharp edges of the hole in the tuning shaft.

I first heard this in about 2006, and up till this point the only time I broke strings was in re-tuning from alternate tunings, and almost always moving upward in pitch. I was popping at least 2 strings a month, on a variety of guitars, and always while re-tuning, never while playing.

I immediately started over-winding strings and have not broken a string since. From one or two a month to zero in 16 years was a welcome change.

[zmf]

That's good if it works for you, and best of luck in the future.

I can see doing that on the wound strings, but I wouldn't trust the 1st and 2nd strings not to slip.

[gfspencer]

[QUOTE=rmp;6870576I just cut the strings just shy of the next post, leaves plenty of string to wrap around with,[/QUOTE]

That's what I do. Never had a problem.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Mark…
I like efficiency as much as the next guy. Did it like your pics until about 2005 when I started implementing alternate tunings, always with the guitar I had in hand.

I now wind strings nearly the opposite from you…and for a reason.

For people who do a lot of alternate tunings on a single guitar, frequently retuning up/down there is constant danger when retuning to standard of popping the 3rd string, and occasionally the 1st or 2nd string. I had accepted the fact it was probably the risk for a single guitar person.

I'm not talking about dropped D, but full on open tunings, and alternate tunings (Open D or Open Dmin are perfect examples) stress strings to the breaking point or work the string over the hole in the tuning shaft. It's kind of like bending a paper-clip back-n-forth till it breaks.

David Wilcox (from Minnesota) will go through a dozen re-tunings in a concert tuning on the fly, and he discovered/shared in about 1995 that if you wrap the wound strings all the way to the bottom of the shaft it stops it. I was this in his video instruction in about 2006.

In a live workshop I attended in Colorado a few years back (2010ish) someone asked if he still does overwinds and he reiterated the point that it only takes a bit longer to wind them, and it stops string breakage. For live performers it brings security.

He also changes to fresh strings before his gigs.

It also means I don't need a backup guitar on stage. On the 3rd string I usually get at least 4-6 wraps, but often just take it all the way to the bottom of the shaft as well. And I don't always change strings before gigs.

He speculates it unwinds/winds the string off/onto the shaft more gradually, increases the break angle, and keeps the string from rolling the windings over the (sometimes) sharp edges of the hole in the tuning shaft.

I first heard this in about 2006, and up till this point the only time I broke strings was in re-tuning from alternate tunings, and almost always moving upward in pitch. I was popping at least 2 strings a month, on a variety of guitars, and always while re-tuning, never while playing.

I immediately started over-winding strings and have not broken a string since. From one or two a month to zero in 16 years was a welcome change.

Really enjoyed you detailed explanation ljguitar, of why you add more wraps.

While I do not change tuning's much, I do unwind & wind back up when I am experimenting with different saddle materials and bridge pins materials. I find less breakage, especially on the 3rd string as you noted. Even though I use locking tuners...I still add extra wraps.

I notice you use the Over Under method as well. Do you find an additional benefit using this to prevent string breakage? Does it somehow help even more as there is now an additional wind above? Possibly a less sharp string angle coming off the post when you unwind?

Do you recommend a best Video that demonstrates this over under method?

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

I notice you use the Over Under method as well. Do you find an additional benefit using this to prevent string breakage? Does it somehow help even more as there is now an additional wind above? Possibly a less sharp string angle coming off the post when you unwind?

Hi K&G

I've never associated the over/under with less breakage. It's just the old-school Taylor Guitar method of wrapping. Bought a Taylor in 1999 and it was their preferred method back then.

I liked it, and have done it now for at least 22 years.

The only guitar I do not do this on is my American Strat Plus, because it has locking tuners.

Everything on my method unwinds from the bottom of the shaft (or way down on the shaft) including my plain trebles. I've never had one break at the shaft since I started deep winding them, but did have many break before and I was using the over/under then. It was already in place before I took David Wilcox's advice.

[bufflehead]

Originally Posted by Mark Stone

C'mon, AGFriends, be brave! You can do it! Escape, and be free from the evil string wrapper cult!!

Nope. Not doin' it. You won't catch me going about half-wrapped.

[RussellHawaii]

I agree with OP, any wraps beyond 1/2 a turn are wasted and possibly detrimental. This is based on using a ‘tie’, or an under string simple knot, on the treble strings and a sharp 90° bend on other strings.
Can’t recall where I read it, but it’s verifiable, the extra wraps are just more slippage that needs to happen before it’s stable.
If you do not do the tie/knot, then the extra wraps are needed. But that’s more work and wrist strain at string change time, and less stable tuning the first few days.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi K&G

I've never associated the over/under with less breakage. It's just the old-school Taylor Guitar method of wrapping. Bought a Taylor in 1999 and it was their preferred method back then.

I liked it, and have done it now for at least 22 years.

The only guitar I do not do this on is my American Strat Plus, because it has locking tuners.

Everything on my method unwinds from the bottom of the shaft (or way down on the shaft) including my plain trebles. I've never had one break at the shaft since I started deep winding them, but did have many break before and I was using the over/under then. It was already in place before I took David Wilcox's advice.

From your data it looks like having the more winds is the fundamental key. The under over technique is not adding to the no breakage problems.

While I try and get my wraps as low as possible, I still have some problems with breakage on 3rd string. And that is because when making new saddles and or nuts I have to unwind a greater distance.

As I now examine my strung guitars closely(with Gotoh locking tuners), I see there is no room for an over anyway. And now I am realizing that there is also no more room for extra wraps on the bottom as well. The post hole is lower than a standard non locking tuner. So unfortunately I can only get about two and half wraps. I maybe be able to get one half, to one full wrap more. I will try hard next time I string up a third string.