New computer or Not?

[AcousticDreams]

In the quest to find an answer to a question, I often find that by writing the question...or replying to a question...I figure out the answer.

Funny thing, the answer becomes so clear when we start to write it down. We see things in black and white and the answer becomes obvious.

And then there are those other times...when we realize that we are worrying about something that makes no real difference in the end.

With that lead in, I probably already know the bulk of the answer to my question...Should I buy a new computer?

Recording my album is much more than just a hobby to me. It is a Life Quest. Something that I started do in my youth...and never completed. I take this very seriously...and thus...because I am taking it so seriously I am quite afraid of it. To make matters worse, I have a habit of not doing something unless I can do it perfectly. My mode of operation is to have all of my ducks in a row first. Everything must line up before I start. Right or wrong...that is just how I am. I want to give...my all.

There are pluses to the way I operate ( in the end, I will get the outcome I desire). And there are also negatives (I will drag myself through endless tunnels that take forever to find my way out of. But Fear or starting, and or completion....is the biggest negative of my motus operatum methods).

As of this moment....Fear has set in.

But this fear is of a technical issue. I fear that when I do start to record my album that problems will occur after I have captured the perfect recording.
I am not a great player....and I expect to have to record many, many times over and over till I get that one performance that will be acceptable to myself.

So after I have captured a recording that is to my liking...will then my old 2009 2 core Imac all of sudden start to have problems. As I an constantly told by others that computers need to be replaced.

Or will I find that the 2 core really limits my workflow as far as adding Virtual Instruments. Right now, with too many open I might have some problems. But with a higher core, M1 chip, I might be able to have several Virtual instruments open at the same time without problems?

Everything tells me in my gut...that Now, is the time to upgrade before I have problems. Unless, I am going down one of those tunnels again...and worrying about something that I need not?

Even so, then I have read by some..of some problems with the new MI chip in running with some VI software and even with Logic Prox. There is a 94 page on Gearspace on the M1! I a question similar to this over there on that thread...but as a rule I respect and like the directness in which I get answers on the AGF recording more.
I know we had a thread on the new M1. But that has been some time now

+ So I am wondering if there have been any conclusions as to this new system?
+ Any problems with Logic Prox and M1? Any problems with interfacing VI's Reverbs, Plug in's with M1?
+ There are three 24 inch models...ranging from 13 to 17th hundred dollars.
Memory of 256 for the lower two models...and 512 for the top of the line.
The difference between the two lower models is one had 8cpu core and 7 Gpu Core and the next in line has one more GPU core for a total of 8.
How important is this one more GPU core?
+ How important is the 512 memory built in versus the 256 with the lower models? With my current computer...I was able to buy and add memory.
+ And will I have any problems transfering my new purchased Plug in's and VI's to a new computer?
https://www.macworld.com/article/344...ard-price.html

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

I am not a great player....and I expect to have to record many, many times over and over till I get that one performance that will be acceptable to myself.

Do you have an aversion to comp tracking?
I'd get nothing recorded without if I couldn't comp.

[tbeltrans]

With regard to the first part of the OP, I heard or read somewhere that one way to find answers to various questions regarding yourself is to take the role of giving advice about those questions to somebody else. Most of us have experienced talking with somebody about his or her issue and coming up with ideas as to how to address it because it always seems easier to deal with somebody else's issues.

With regard to the rest of the OP about the specifics of recording, I don't have an answer because I decided that I need more time to play guitar and taking the time to learn how to record properly is an entire skill in itself that would take serious time away from my guitar playing for an extended period of time. If I ever decide to seriously record such that it could require expensive software and a computer to match, my money would probably be better spent on one of the local studios.

Tony

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Do you have an aversion to comp tracking?
I'd get nothing recorded without if I couldn't comp.

I had to look up what Comp Tracking was...ha ha...

Yes, I use to do that back in the day with vocals. I expect to do that again for vocals...as I spend the least amount of time practicing with vocals these days.

However, I don't think I can do it to the same degree with the type of acoustic guitar style in which I play, as I will with voice. I have some pretty crazy overlapping notes. But what I do hope to do is Segments...where there are pauses.

Thank you for bringing this up. I definitely need to learn the most efficient way to perform comp tracking. But that is for another upcoming thread, when I ask for suggestions for remain equipment I need. Such as remote triggering of my Daw so that I can play and record facing away from the computer. But I am a while out from that. I will send pictures of my set up and ask for some suggestions.

I only used the example of multiple takes because at that point I will have spent a lot of time making the recordings. The point being, my fear of loosing what will have taken me so long to make because my older computer might develop problems because I will be using more space? More CPU's More core?.

Boy would I hate to have problems and either spend gobs of hours trying to recover what I lost or completely loose it. Yeah, you guessed it...I am a bit of a worry wart. That is all part of having everything in a row, ready to go, personality type.

So the main question is about the safety of more core, more cpu's that might offer me with the new M1 and higher cores?..OR are there some problems because this is a new system? And should I look at new, old stock IMAC's from a year or two ago? OR don't worry at all my old is perfectly acceptable?

In my mind, there is this thought that I would keep the old for doing my average tasks such as information finding, emails, photo's....and the new only for recording.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

In my mind, there is this thought that I would keep the old for doing my average tasks such as information finding, emails, photo's....and the new only for recording.

I can't tell you if you need a new computer or not but I do subscribe to the idea of reserving my studio computer for music only. Over the years, we load up our computers with a lot of software and some of it slows things down. If I do all my non-music stuff on other computers, it's easier to keep the studio machine running at a higher efficiency.

[Doug Young]

I doubt you need the latest greatest computer for audio. Just about any computer these days will handle a fairly large number of tracks without breaking a sweat, at least until you start loading up too many plugins. Video is where things get crazy and you need CPU/GPU power and fast disks.

For comping, since you use Logic, check out the demo I did some years ago:



You can do even things that seem continuous pretty easily. Sometimes you can hear the edit, and you have to play with it, but most of the time, it works really easily.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

However, I don't think I can do it to the same degree with the type of acoustic guitar style in which I play

I think you'd be surprised how often you can seamlessly stitch together various takes, as long as you are playing along with what you recorded previously (or a backing track), for timing. It doesn't always work in some spots, but far more often than you might be thinking. And often if it doesn't work in a specific spot, you can just move your edit point back and forth to find a spot that does.

The point being, my fear of loosing what will have taken me so long to make because my older computer might develop problems because I will be using more space? More CPU's More core?

Once you have a track laid down, and it's on your hard drive, you won't lose it due to any lack of computer power or space (unless you have a catastrophic drive failure, but of course you have backups... right?). It's there, saved. You can take your entire project, layout, audio, midi and all, and transfer it anywhere you want--including a new computer, if you so desire.

I wouldn't worry about it... start your project with what you have. Should you reach a point where the machine can't handle it for some reason, save the project on a flash drive, buy a new computer then, and load it up on the new machine.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

I don't think I can do it to the same degree with the type of acoustic guitar style in which I play, as I will with voice. I have some pretty crazy overlapping notes. But what I do hope to do is Segments...where there are pauses.

You'd be surprised how easy it is once you learn the Dos and Don'ts. You really don't need pauses in the music to make a smooth digital splice. For guitar work, make your splice right before a transient and make sure to do a cross fade. You just want to make sure to keep the dynamics of each take very close and to stay in time. Done correctly (and it really isn't hard to do correctly), no one will ever know.

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I doubt you need the latest greatest computer for audio. Just about any computer these days will handle a fairly large number of tracks without breaking a sweat, at least until you start loading up too many plugins.

From past conversations, I know that K&G likes his virtual instruments. I suffer from the same malady and some of those things do chew up computer resources.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by jim1960

From past conversations, I know that K&G likes his virtual instruments. I suffer from the same malady and some of those things do chew up computer resources.

Yeah, I forgot about that, those may need more horsepower

[kurth]

I've found you can composite many types of tracks esp if they're midi based, however for principal tracks of acoustic guitar and vocals, if you want the essence to remain the same, be patient and do it again. I often use one day on one song's principal guitar track. It's the track that carries the weight. And vocals ....another whole day for that track. Compositing vocals, even where it might be hard for a 'listener' to hear, looses that essence of continuity imho. Of course it becomes easier and more disquise-able the more tracks of instruments you have. But with just one acoustic guitar track and one vocal track, to me it stands out. I just keep all my takes , and remember what I like about the phrasing, keep notes, and then try and try again. The more you sing the better it gets.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by jim1960

From past conversations, I know that K&G likes his virtual instruments. I suffer from the same malady and some of those things do chew up computer resources.

With my old Mellotron-Chamberlain keyboard it was easy. I could play single or two instruments at a time. Violins and Cellos, Oboes and Bassons, French horn and flute, Trumpet and Trombone. I just turned a knob arm and was ready for the instrument I wanted. Then I just Pushed record on the tape deck and was ready to go.

Unfortunately I do not think I can do that with VI's. Still new into the understanding of it all, but I think I have to open up a new track with that instrument on it. And then, I think I am using up that CPU power. That is if I understand it correctly. Of course, I could X-out that instrument and load another to save CPU's. But that takes time and is no fun when trying to decide which instrument to use. I have watched a couple of videos of composers and it seems like thry have all the instruments loaded up on separate tracts. Just easier access them this way.

So this brings me back to the question if the M1 chip offers something more in combination with CPU? Or is the M1 chip just a space saving device so that they can make the new Imac's thinner?

Has anyone here invested in the new computers M1?
As I mentioned, there is a 94 page thread on Gearspace. I posed the question about the value of the M1 and what where the real advantages of this chip and the CPU power and so on....earlier today....I also asked about the supposed problems with some of the VI players working with the M1 and with Logic.

Looks like I froze that thread...Stopped the Press. Not one reply!

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

[INDENT]

Unfortunately I do not think I can do that with VI's. Still new into the understanding of it all, but I think I have to open up a new track with that instrument on it. And then, I think I am using up that CPU power. That is if I understand it correctly. Of course, I could X-out that instrument and load another to save CPU's. But that takes time and is no fun when trying to decide which instrument to use. I have watched a couple of videos of composers and it seems like thry have all the instruments loaded up on separate tracts. Just easier access them this way.

If you're just trying to find a sound you like, once you record a MIDI track, you can just switch the instrument you want on the track. You can even do something crazy, like record a cello, then put a drum instrument on the track. The notes will map to random drums sounds, but it will "play" something. My limited use of virtual instruments is usually using the East-West stuff, and I can just click on a different instrument and load/play that. There are note ranges to deal with if you do something where that's different, like switching between a cello and a flute or something, but aside from that, you just change instruments. You can also freeze tracks, which basically makes an audio copy in a temp folder, so you're no longer using any CPU aside from playing the audio for a track. And you can unfreeze, and go back to being able to edit, change instruments and so on.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

So this brings me back to the question if the M1 chip offers something more in combination with CPU? Or is the M1 chip just a space saving device so that they can make the new Imac's thinner?

By all accounts I've seen so far, the M1 (and its variations) is a whole other level of computer power. I'd feel pretty confident going with one based on what I've seen. What would give me some hesitancy is compatibility. I have a lot of software (plugins, vsts, etc.) and I'd hate to lose some of them for an indeterminate amount of time. I'm not sure when we'll reach full compatibility for M1 but I'm probably a buyer when we do. I anticipate that will be in a year or two (that will depend on what software you own as some companies will take longer to adjust).

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

Has anyone here invested in the new computers M1?

I think KevWind bought one. Not sure who else though.

[FrankHudson]

Speaking objectively, an 12-13 year old computer is a risk even if it works today. In business settings where I had hundreds of computers to support my goal was always to do a planned replacement rather than an emergency replacement. Having to replace a computer (even if you do backups, and test to know they're good) is not good for productivity in the midst of a project.

I can't tell you anything about plugins and M1 compatibility. I assume many will work by now, maybe most, but there could still be ones that don't and who know how important those may be to you. By all reports even the first generation of the M1 has plenty of computer power.

If you think your project will be over in a couple of years or so, you could get one of the remaining Intel I7 Mac Minis which have plenty of CPU power. This is a strictly limited recommendation, only based on your desire to maximize plug in compatibility at the present time. I wouldn't generally recommend those Mac I7 models (I have one I bought in 2019, but that was a different time, and if I had to replace it*) -- I personally doubt how long Apple will support the Intel models, but you should be safe for a couple of years.

Current Apple models are generally not upgradeable to increase internal storage or memory. Alas, even with the high prices Apple charges for this, I'd want at least a 512 gig internal drive for a Logic Pro X recording computer.** I run 16 gigs of RAM, but some say the new M1 storage drives are so fast that 8 gigs works better than one might think it will.

Assuming you can afford it, starting your project on a new computer would be my advice.

*If for some reason I had to replace my I7 Mac Mini, I'd personally go with a M1 Mac Mini myself.

**I store my VIs on an external drive where i can, but in some cases you need to install first on the internal drive and then move them. Recording projects can be stored on an external drive too, but a 256 gig drive may cramp your style.

[rick-slo]

My DAW shows the percentage CPU power being used at any given time. I suspect there are other DAWs doing that also. It's usually pretty low except with some reverbs. I don't use virtual instruments. If you are not getting pops or click sounds you should probably be fine (setting a high buffer allows more processing without those pops and clicks) and the sound of the wav file will be the same whether the CPU use is 10% or 80%. With a lot of processing being done you can do it in stages. Some stuff for a wav file and some more stuff on that wav file. Of course that is more time consuming and you can not have everything going at once to see how upfront different things interact with each other.

Several youtube videos on this topic by people doing music production on Macs.