Martin needs to stop the foolishness!

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by merlin666

...I found Martin appealing when there was a D18, D28, D35, D45 and the differences were clear. But now with 15 to 20 flavors for each of these and a myriad outside of the "traditional" models, I have lost interest in browsing their website or even touching one of their guitars in the store anymore.

Hear, hear...

[zoopeda]

Originally Posted by BoneDigger

Are we advocating for LESS choices now?

Chris Martin gave an interview last year where he explained the irony of many phone calls he’s gotten from vendors. He said on multiple occasions, vendors would start the call “there are just too many choices. Too much to stock and customers get confused,” and sometimes the same vendor would literally transition into “ooh, you know what would make a cool special edition...” or “hey, you know what you guys should build...”.

Darned if you do, darned if you don’t, I suppose!

[DukeX]

As a happy owner of a 000-15sm I am glad they have lots of options. I have zero problem going through their various options, and I like their search engine.

[Rev Roy]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

Because you aren't the only one who buys guitars??

Did I win for "best answer".

Yep. Thanks, Jamie, it’s mic drop time. 🎤

We can all go home now...

[musicman1951]

Originally Posted by boneuphtoner

Good point there also - and even though I recently switched from Taylor to Martin, I still have no idea about what the differences are between my HD-28 and a D-41, or even a D-45 for that matter. Differences in bling are obvious, but Martin certainly doesn't do a good job of explaining the different grades of wood, subtle differences in bracing, etc. that separate these models. Although I switched from Taylor to Martin because of the increased tone and resonance, I think Taylor could teach Martin a thing or two about educating newer players like me about their offerings.

Kind of like Bach mouthpieces? I agree they could make it much easier to understand the lines.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by Rev Roy

Yep. Thanks, Jamie, it’s mic drop time. ��

We can all go home now...

Thanks Roy.
It seemed so obvious.

My other answer was "all they need to make is the Standard D18", but that seemed a little presumptuous on my part.
P.S. I just returned from a rehearsal for Sunday's Worship Service. Man that D18 shines with Gospel Music...shines!

[Arthur Slowhand]

Originally Posted by hat

Can't we just go back to the basics? ...Why are all the other's needed?

Can't Ford just go back to making the Model T? All those other models confuse me. Oh... and only in black - too many colours.

[emuhunter]

I’ve tried and really can’t wrap my brain around how this is an issue.

All of the models the original poster has stated are preferred are easily available. Now more than at any time we can research models online and most importantly ask people who actually OWN these models what their experiences have been. Having more options available is a positive situation without any apparent downside and allows people more choices without having to go through the custom shop to get features that suit them.

I guess people will really and truly complain about anything these days.

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by merlin666

I totally agree. I found Martin appealing when there was a D18, D28, D35, D45 and the differences were clear. But now with 15 to 20 flavors for each of these and a myriad outside of the "traditional" models, I have lost interest in browsing their website or even touching one of their guitars in the store anymore.

But the 35 and 45 are basically just ultra-bling'd out 28's, so if you're gonna pare down, get rid of those too. But by god, don't mess with the 15 series. They're the all-hog group, they're basic and non-bling, they have their own sound, and they're arguably the best value of anything they make.

I've got no problem with options - I wish some of the customs that Ted at LA Guitars orders and sells were part of their regular lineup. But if anybody ever adopts this harebrained plan, just leave the 15 series ALONE!

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by hat

they are getting to be as bad as Harley with all the different models and nomenclature. Can't we just go back to the basics? D18, D28, OM, 000-18/28?
Why are all the other's needed?

I don't know anything about Harley guitars, but I do have some sympathy for his idea about Martin just doing the "standard" lines.

However, I'm sure they know their business model better than I do (or at least Chris IV did).

Can't help wondering if they are competing against themselves a bit - of course Martin sell to their retailers - not to us.

[merlin666]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

I don't know anything about Harley guitars, but I do have some sympathy for his idea about Martin just doing the "standard" lines.

However, I'm sure they know their business model better than I do (or at least Chris IV did).

Can't help wondering if they are competing against themselves a bit - of course Martin sell to their retailers - not to us.

And well they are not the only ones. Gibson is just as guilty of watering down their model lines. But I guess it helps them with sales and there are more people who want to have 15 flavors of D-18 on their wall than being turned off and getting a Guild instead.

[bufflehead]

The economics here is fairly simple. Once you've got your D-18 and your 000-15, Martin would like you to purchase Guitar #3. Many of us have been happy to oblige.

[Matt G]

As far as selling tradition, i think that if Martin sees a lot of customers going to small-shop luthiers who are making guitars very similar to Martin's own guitars, Martin should ask why those customers are not buying Martins. If those customers are buying "features" that could be added to the existing Martin line, Martin should consider adding those features to its own line and getting those customers back.

The tradition doesn't need to be compromised if what the customers are looking for is within the realm of what Martin already sells. (features might include type of tone wood, string spacing, neck profile, tone-tapped bracing, or other details that don't ruin the tradition.)

One reason I would go to a small - shop luthier is for an optimized tone. I don't think Martin pays enough attention to each guitar to optimize every guitar's tone.

So the folks running Martin might want to find out why I trust a small builder to do a better job at building a Martin-style guitar, and see if there's something they can do within the limits of a factory build process to optimize their guitars' tone.

If Martin's efforts result in a new model tailored to my wants (assuming I represent an entire demographic), then they have something to market to me - something to convince me that Martin is the best place to buy a traditional guitar tone that has been optimized for fullest resonance or whatever I'm shopping for.

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

I'm not really seeing it.

Martin is in the business of selling "tradition". Many small-shop luthiers make their own versions of Martins. So, Martin should copy people copying them?

One of the things that small-shop luthiers can offer is innovation - providing some features that aren't (currently/yet) found in production-made instruments. Until recently, that included things like arm bevels - Taylor now offers them on their production guitars. They aren't "traditional". Bolt-on adjustable necks - rather than glued dovetails - are another. They aren't traditional either. And so on. Offering non-traditional features isn't - or hasn't - been Martin's selling proposition. They have introduced some non-traditional features - baked tops, liquid metal bridge pins, composite bridge plates - but the mainstay of their business appears to continue to be an appeal to tradition. That's largely at odds with innovation.

[archerscreek]

There are potential risks/downsides to having too many choices.

Too many choices can inhibit action. No one wants to make the wrong selection. It's easier to pick the best (or best for you) of two than the best of 14, for instance. This isn't just a hypothetical negative. It's been demonstrated and cited by various trade publications I've read.

Building inexpensive models has the potential to cheapen the brand in the eyes of some. I've read comments from quite a few whose impressions of Martin guitars stem largely from the less expensive models.

Building a lot of different stuff in various locations might spread a business too thin regarding quality control and oversight.

I have no doubt Martin is aware of the potential downsides of everything they do, including adding new models and discontinuing others. I also bet they're doing a lot better than Harley Davidson. Last I saw their motorcycle sales numbers were significantly down.

[noledog]

Originally Posted by merlin666

I totally agree. I found Martin appealing when there was a D18, D28, D35, D45 and the differences were clear. But now with 15 to 20 flavors for each of these and a myriad outside of the "traditional" models, I have lost interest in browsing their website or even touching one of their guitars in the store anymore.

Good gracious, for example; did you stop eating your favorite Kelloggs cereal or stop browsing the isle when Kelloggs or whoever came out with a dozen new flavors? Sheez are you so offended by more choices for folks that you won't touch a Martin in store anymore? ...what does one have to do with the other? Understanding the variety of woods, body sizes and even nomenclature/designations is not rocket science. If someone is genuinely interested, they can make a small effort to learn more about guitars just like any other product, item, hobby or profession by going to a... wait for it... a forum! or a other guitar/music websites, as well as communicating and having an actual conversation with a pro musician.

Originally Posted by emuhunter

I’ve tried and really can’t wrap my brain around how this is an issue.

All of the models the original poster has stated are preferred are easily available. Now more than at any time we can research models online and most importantly ask people who actually OWN these models what their experiences have been. Having more options available is a positive situation without any apparent downside and allows people more choices without having to go through the custom shop to get features that suit them.

I guess people will really and truly complain about anything these days.

+1... I totally agree emuhunter, thank you bud! So much negativity and whining about nothing these days.

* When I switched from Lowden (due to toasted frets and the pickup going kaput after 15 yrs), to Takamine for my performances, I had to do some serious research as this is my livelihood. Lowden had shut down and re-opened at nearly 3x the price as my '97 Lowden during this period and I did not have that kinda coin.

** Back then there were zero Taks to demo in my area, all I had was their website, forum and other web info with dozens of choices and model numbers that were confusing at first. BUT with a lil' effort I learned the differences between a "NEX" body and an "FX" body or the Pro Series vs the Legacy Series, or the differences between Korean made and Japanese made Taks and so on.

*** I've since become a bit of an expert on the brand now which has afforded me to fine tune my stage sound better than ever, as well as helping others trying to do the same. (which by the way I genuinely enjoy doing here on the AGF and to fellow working musicians or hobbyists all over who reach out to me quite a bit these days here, on my YTC, my FB website and at my shows.) We have a conversation, teach them nomenclature and try to point them in a helpful direction... which is what I believe J.R. graciously and generously designed this forum for. I'm thankful for much of what I have gleaned as well.

**** If Martin guitars do it for you, then enjoy them! Why let Martin Guitar Company's attempts to increase business by incorporating more choices for folks allow you to become annoyed to such an extreme, even if the designations are not appealing to you? A good D-18 is a good D-18, but you won't know it till you "touch one" and try. If one has an MLO/PA neck profile and is called a Standard and the other has a MOD-V and is called a D18GE; isn't it nice to be able to choose the one that is more comfortable neck profile?? C'mon folks smile more, complain less.