Easy small gig set-up

tbv58 · #1 08-08-2007, 09:17 AM

It has been a long time, but I am being asked to do a few small gigs (back yard, patio, & small restaurant type stuff) via word of mouth. I do singer/stongwriter tunes. I am primarily a strummer with decent vocals.

I'd like something simple and would like your feedback on comparing the following:

1) Acoustic Amp (line and vocal channels) and if you like this some recommendations

vs.

2) Small PA system, (i.e. Fender Passport)

Thanks for your feedback

jstancil · #2 08-08-2007, 10:11 AM

I am sure a few people on here will tell you to get the Bose PAS. I myself am saving up for one at the moment. Simple and easy and big PA sound. Currently I run the Bose 802 speakers. The are great for being small and easy to carry around. Just put together a small mixer, amp, and the bose equilizer that usually comes with these and you are set.

Marshall · #3 08-08-2007, 10:17 AM

There's many many good options.

I like my new Schertler David. It is high quality (a little expensive) and is very portable [ 16" cube, 80 Watts power] It has 2 channels; line & XLR. Separate reverb on each. Phantom power on XLR line. You can mount it on a speaker pole, too. And it has XLR out to a PA or house system.

It even comes with a gig bag with a shoulder strap.

ljguitar · #4 08-08-2007, 10:42 AM

Hi Tim...
My gigging partner have both acoustic amps which double as small individual PAs, and a small PA.

My acoustic amp is an UltraSound AG-50, which I plug a mic into channel 1 and guitar into channel 2.

My partner's rig is an SWR Blonde (12'' two way), which sounds more ampy but permits him to play his bass as well as acoustic, and he runs one channel mic and the other instrument.

We also own a Behringer powered board (800 Watts Stereo or 400 Watts times 2 channels), and a pair of 12'' two way cabinets which we run on stands behind and above us (our cabinets are Community, but lots of companies build decent versions of this configuration). We use this when more musicians are joining us or the gig gets too big for just our amps. When we go PA, we leave the amps at home.

I'd do a small back yard gathering, or small coffee shop with just the UltraSound AG-50.

For gigs too big for the amp but too small for PA, we run the board with a single cabinet centered behind and above us.

This is a very flexible arrangement.

fitness1 · #5 08-08-2007, 10:45 AM

you are bound to get into a situation where it's noisy and the single point amp isn't going to cut it from a dispersion standpoint. It will be too loud in one area and almost unheard in another. A small PA is always the way to go if you don't mind carrying a couple extra pieces. Technology has made this pretty easy in the last few years. I wouldn't recommend the Passport or other small packages....I'd tell you to check out the small Yamaha EMX 212 and a pair of Peavey PR12N speakers which are very light.. I have the same speakers and an older/equivalent Yamaha powered mixer and that little system outperforms the Mackie 406m and Carvin PM15 cabinets I had previously from an accuracy standpoint. The mackie/carvin system weighed about 122lbs and the new yamaha/peavey weighs about 64lbs. I picked all three pieces up on Ebay New/Old stock from a dealer for a little north of 500. More channels, greater dispersion and larger drivers than you would get in a Passport or equivalent system.
Normally the effects are a little better as well.

JohnZ · #6 08-08-2007, 10:53 AM

For something small and compact (37 lbs.) a Carvin AG100D is a great utility amp for acoustic guitar, vocals, tracks, and bass if need be. Being self contained, setup is instant. I still often use mine even though I have a Bose PAS L1.

mehl · #7 08-08-2007, 10:53 AM

I really like my Fender Acoustasonic SFXII and bought it for use in a similar venue. It has two channels with effects on both channels and a input on the front of the amp for your Ipod or drum machine.

This thing isn't for the "small guy" as it weighs in at 50+ lbs and isn't really a joy to tote around.

lodi_55 · #8 08-08-2007, 11:06 AM

I have the Bose L1 system and am very happy with it. We just did an outdoor wedding last weekend and it cut through the crowd noise fine. And that was with mic'd nylon stringed classicals! I play my Taylor K-20C at a very noisy bar and I can play more than loud enough with room to spare.

Good luck!

rmyAddison · #9 08-08-2007, 11:36 AM

I prefer high end acoustic amps (with an extension cabinet if needed) over entry level PA's for single or duo work. If you want to buy a good board and expensive speakers then a PA takes over, but at 2-3 times the price.

Depends on your needs, your budget, and what your ears consider to be the sound you want to achieve. I want the closest thing to a natural sound I can get, sub $1K PA's don't do that for me, a Genz Benz or AER does, but everyone has different tastes and ears.

Audition some small PA's against high end acoustics amps maybe with extension cabinets and let your ears make the call. Good Luck.

TerryAllanHall · #10 08-08-2007, 05:19 PM

Check into what Carvin has to offer in the line of PA packages...been earning my keep w/ this wonderful company's offerings for a bit over 33 years...

http://www.carvin.com/products/group.php?CID=SYS1

The only good thing I can honestly say about the Bose L1 scam is they do have a great return policy, and once you blow one up, they're said to be very good about sending you another...the sound of 'em just doesn't work for me, though!

Marshall · #11 08-09-2007, 06:38 AM

You can get an extension cabinet for the Schertler David, so you can have dual speaker cabinets up on poles. I've never tried that.

songsender · #12 08-09-2007, 07:18 AM

In my experience, the problem with acoustic amps that can handle vocals is the fact that most of them sit on or close to the ground. This may be fine for the guitar, and can actually help the bottom end frequencies if the amp is a bit deficient in that area. But... when you are playing small gigs or coffee shops, etc., the key it to get the sound UP over the crowd, not burried at their feet. With an amp down at your feet you will have a tendency to lose the definition of your vocals. Unless you can get an acoustic amp with the ability to put it on a stand up 6 feet, I'd definitely go with a small sound system that includes speaker stands.

I have heard many VERY nice sounding small systems, and you just need to go audition some. Take your acoustic guitar with you, plug in and take a listen. See if YOU like the way it sounds.

I would recommend passing on the Fender Passport System. It might be good for an auctioneer or a speaker at a luncheon, but I wouldn't play some serious music through it. I went to an Ovation guitar clinic at a local music store that used a Passport for the amplification of the clinic. I was embarassed for the store and couldn't believe the clinician was willing to play through it. Sounded REALLY bad.

Good luck on your search!

rmyAddison · #13 08-09-2007, 08:17 AM

Paul,

I have a Genz Benz Shenandoah Pro (parametric EQ, Tube preamp) and extension cabinet, and I place them on amplifier stands so they are 4' above ground and angled slightly up, no problem with room dispersion....

lodi_55 · #14 08-09-2007, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by songsender

In my experience, the problem with acoustic amps that can handle vocals is the fact that most of them sit on or close to the ground. This may be fine for the guitar, and can actually help the bottom end frequencies if the amp is a bit deficient in that area. But... when you are playing small gigs or coffee shops, etc., the key it to get the sound UP over the crowd, not burried at their feet. With an amp down at your feet you will have a tendency to lose the definition of your vocals. Unless you can get an acoustic amp with the ability to put it on a stand up 6 feet, I'd definitely go with a small sound system that includes speaker stands.

I agree with Songsender. Getting up over the crowd is key. My partner and I worked with acoustic amps at ground level last year at a very packed, loud bar. We thought we were playing very loudly, but we weren't getting the response we were hoping for. So I walked to the back of the bar (we also did this earlier before the place started hopping) and I could barely hear any music.

The Bose system I use now is elevated at around 6' feet, but really any speaker stand would have helped us tremendously in the early days.

ljguitar · #15 08-09-2007, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lodi_55

I agree with Songsender. Getting up over the crowd is key.

Hi guys...
I carry two stands with me - cheap keyboard X-stands.

One is 30'' high (76cm) the other 40'' (100cm) and these get the amp up in the air enough to put it at our head level when we sit to play in coffee shops (which most customers are doing in coffee shops).

If it's a noisy or larger venue, we forego the acoustic amps and jump right to the PA. I like the Bose system sound - I don't like their weight (about 90 pounds of gear to haul) nor the price (a couple thousand bucks to get a good system with sub-woofer).

I like small powered boards and cabinets. I can change out the 12'' two way cabinets for 15'' two way or 15'' two way and sub and get three systems for the price of one (we own different sets of cabinets from years of PA work).

We bought a powered board with 8XLR and 6 - 1/4'' inserts with 800 Watts of power, two 12'' two way cabinets, cables, and stands for under $700. It carries in from the car trunk (boot) in two trips. It sets up in 3 minutes (literally plug-n-play) with little assembly required. Sounds great, and we've used it twice weekly for several years without issue.

We set up the stands and pop the speakers on top & plug em in, find the AC and plug in the board, plug in the guitars - go!

When we are done, we unplug the cables, wind em and toss em in the gig bag, pop the speakers, collapse the stands (one piece stands), and load em back in the car trunk.

I like simple, solid, easy, and clear sound - I like to be heard. I'm cheap so there are limits to how far I'll go to accomplish it.