When did you discover that pickups did not sound good?

[Cuki79]

I remember very well when and how I discovered that pickup don’t sound good.

From 18 years old to 31, I played a laminate Yamaha FG with onboard Undersaddle piezo transducer (UST). I remember choosing the laminate+pickup over a solid top with no pickup when I bought this Yamaha (dummy teenage move). Ever since I dreamed of an acoustic amp, especially since I performed on a fender acoustasonic at one gig. In college, I put money aside in order to afford a Marshall AS50R. I was so happy with the sound. Before I sang at home through my HiFi and a small Behringer mixer… I bought a Marshall because it was written “Marshall” on it… (sic) and was very proud of it.

Well, when I got 31, I thought it was the time to upgrade the Marshall. I read magazines and learned about Schertler… Then about SR Technology, I read that basically that The SR Jam 150+ was a Schertler Unico without Schertler preamp… so I decide to go for it. It sounded MILES better than the Marshall for vocals! However it came with a cost, I quickly realised the pickup sound was horrible…

So I read more magazines and found out about the Fishman Aura. I loved the idea of it and Fishman had a Yamaha FG in the database. The sound was awesome.

Then my cousin bought his first high end guitar: a Gibson J-45. I was traumatised by the acoustic tone… My beloved Yamaha sounded poor in comparison…

Now it has been ten years, and I had to “upgrade” about everything. Bought countless guitars (Gibson, Taylor, Martin, Lakewood…), pickups, preamps, amps and speakers (Baggs, Fishman, d-tar, TC electronic, headway, SR, Laney, Bose…) and even went the DIY road.

Now my rig is about as close as possible as the teenage me was dreaming of.
I use:
* a dual source pickup with a homemade Baggs Anthem-like preamp. I have IR pedal with custom IR if I need to get loud and avoid feedback.
* a EAE stompmix4 serves as mixer, EQ (HPF+ parametric), reverb.
* a Boss RC-5 provides drum and backing vocals backing tracks if needed.
* a JBL eon one compact (Maybe not the best sound, but the most versatile EQ wise)
* The guitars are Martin 00-18V and Eastman E6OM

Please share your story how you got into the amplification rabbit hole.

PS: I need to thank everyone on the AGF for helping me learning all that (Doug Young, MartinGitDave, SpruceTop, Vancebo, Aaron… and all the luthiers from the AGF who from times to times enlighten us about how the acoustic guitar works). Special thanks to Spoon and Maury for introducing us to the Martin world.

[Peter Z]

I discovered the bad sound of UST the first time I installed one of those in a Sigma DR28 (or so) decades ago. Solution was to take my electric guitars for everything instead.
Many years later, as soon they were available, I bought the first Fishman Aura AST and that improved the sound significantly. I later bought an Aura 16 and a Spectrum (that was the best of the bunch) and was (almost) happy. I still have all of them.

Next step was a ToneDexter and while I loved the idea and technology I wasn’t able improve my sound in comparison to the Auras.

And eventually I switched to LR Baggs Anthems and Lyrics and this is close to perfection for me. So much more natural and dynamic.

My rig:
Anthem or Lyric equipped guitar into a HX Stomp and that into the mixing desk or directly into the desk without the stomp.

Please wish me nice weather without thunderstorms for tonights open air gig!

[Cuki79]

Good luck Peter!
I am in Germany and will need good weather too!

[Peter Z]

Thanks Cuki!
Yes, the Germans need good weather indeed after they had suffered so much.
But I‘m sure you brought some French sunshine with you! :-)

[Jinder]

My story isn’t too dissimilar…I started out with a ‘70s Kiso Suzuki Hummingbird copy that I put an early Shadow dual source pickup into. The mic would feed back horribly and I didn’t really know how to set up a blend in those days, so just used the UST.

I had a Marshall AS50R also, which seemed like an exciting prospect at the time but, in retrospect, was unreliable and sounded fairly mediocre.

I played everywhere as a solo artist for a few years from ‘97 to 2000, before falling into a band which suddenly got lucky (management deal, record deal, single in the charts) from 2001-2004, during which time I was primarily playing electric, so didn’t have much use for an acoustic setup.

Once the band split, I went back to solo work, with a Takamine EAN20C that I had bought during my time with the band, and a new Takamine ENV460SC Nashville Series that I bought afterwards. Great live guitars, and the Cool Tubes preamp was a massive step forwards for me. I toured with these guitars for several years and made my first solo album in 2004/5 with them. I loved that they sounded so good plugged in and had onboard tuners etc.

Following this, I bought a Gibson SJ200 for a country album project and fell in love with Gibson acoustics…I fitted a Takamine Tri-Ax soundhole pickup in the belief that it would replicate the plugged-in tone of my Taks, but was rather surprised by how different it was in reality. It was my first mag pickup and not a tone or response I was used to at all. It came out after a few months and I put a Fishman Matrix Natural II into the SJ200, which stayed in it for the rest of my ownership of the guitar and suited it just fine. I didn’t get into the Aura tech until some time later, but I wish I’d been an early adopter. I think this guitar would have suited it very well.

Largely, from this time until 2013, I was using house PA systems as I spent eight years on major labels in various capacities and was generally playing larger venues. Around 2011, however, I did a tour of small venues and began playing house gigs, and bought a secondhand Laney Audiohub unit for amplification. I really enjoyed the Audiohub, it sounded very good and was very convenient. That was really my jumping off point back into the world of acoustic amplification, and I kept it for several years until my first wife reversed my car over it by mistake!


From there I was given a Carlsbro Sherwood by a family friend, which was good for guitar but didn’t really shine for vocals…I replaced this with a Loudbox Performer, which I had three of over a couple of years and found very good sonically but most unreliable. Then came a DV Mark AC101-H which was unremarkable, died, was replaced under warranty with a unit that arrived DOA.

Around this time, after years of using Gibsons with Matrix Infinity pickups into an Aura Sixteen, I discovered the joys of Sunrise pickups, which changed my approach to amplification and redefined what I wanted from my guitar tone.

That sparked a mission of trying everything I could lay my hands on…I owned, over the next couple of years, a Mesa Rosette 300 1:10, an AER Domino 3, an AER Compact XL, a Schertler Roy and a Hughes & Kettner Era 2. I learned a great deal about what makes a great acoustic amp for my needs, and the limitations that they all do or don’t have.

Eventually, the road of discovery led me to an AER Compact 60/4 and an AER Alpha Plus, which is where I’m at now, and very satisfied. I run my Sunrise pickups through a Boss AD10 which I’ve used for several years and really enjoy. Superb pre.

[AeroUSA]

I played a Taylor 414CE with barn door Fishman from 18-26(ish) and was fine with it until one day a fellow musician told me they didn’t like the sound of it plugged in. I then moved to a mini Maton which later got me wanting to find something that sounded like that but in a Martin. Aside from the Anthem/Cole Clark and a couple of other things I never did!

[Degenerates]

Not so much a pickup but when I got my first electro acoustic back in 2011 it was purely as a functional thing, I’m a guitar teacher and just needed something sounding decent to do lessons and maybe use live, so got a Takamine EG321c. I ran with that til last year, and thought nothing of the plugged in sound. Then Covid struck and I was playing more acoustic at home, doing more online lessons where I plugged the guitar into my interface. It sounded alright and did the job but the longer I did it I didn’t really fully realise a condenser mic will always sound better than a direct plugged in tone.

2 months ago I got my D28 with no electronics. I liked the sound of the LR Baggs Anthem pickup but it costs a lot and I would also then have to pay someone to install it. I’m now using an AKG P170 condenser mic which sounds great but for ease of use and reducing background noise I’ve been looking into soundhole pickups. Some of the ones that came out back in the day sound too electric guitar like and some still do now. Some have a built in mic you can blend which gets it a bit closer to the natural sound but it still doesn’t replace the unplugged sound. There’s a few I’m looking at (there’s a thread about it). But it’s mainly for live use when I have a big PA system and other guitarists playing.

Yet to make a decision but I’m paying more attention to pickups now than I did a decade ago.

[Bob Womack]

Back in 1971 I bought one of those Radio Shack sound hole, clip-on dood-dads based up a ceramic mic. The first time I opened the volume control I knew I was in for a ride. Sharp! Next, I heard a friend's Ovation built-in piezo pickup. Pat Simmons of the Doobie Brothers used one for a while. Jim Croce and his partner Maury Meuhleisen (RIP) used those in big halls. Then there were the Barcus Berry and FRAP! stick-on bridge pickups, USING GENUINE BEESWAX to stick 'em on. They were the first application of the piezo idea for the masses, outside of Ovation.

I had a Fishman UST installed in my long-time partner, a Conn F-27 dread. Boy, it was dark and thunky. By the time the barn Door blenders arrived I was in pig heaven, rolling in the mud. When I was playing in bands, the barn door made controlling my volume from the front a cinch.

Pickups kind of are what they are. We live in a world of compromises.

Bob

[J Patrick]

…my first pickup in 1974 was a Barcus Berry that was literally screwed to the top of my 73/D-35…..crude but ineffective…..and it left two holes in the top when I removed it because it sounded like crap….things could only get better after that disaster….

[Nymuso]

The first time I ever heard a UST was when Tracy Chapman was on TV playing something and her guitar sounded horrible. Didn't know what it was but I knew I didn't want it.

I now know she was plugged directly into the sound system with no pre amp, but apparently at that time she didn't know she needed one either. However, this prompted me to do a little research (before the internet) and I learned about how it all is supposed to work.

As Bob stated above, the best we can hope for is compromise.

[Petty1818]

I am one of those who does not hate the tone of a UST. It’s not my favourite but when I hear live albums from the 80’s, 90’s etc, and there’s a distinct piezo tone, it doesn’t bother me. I even remember back in 2003, hearing a CLapton live album and wanting that Matrix tone. I loved it. I think it’s just because at the time, that was what everyone was using.

What made me go down the rabbit hole was not so much the dislike for the UST tone but more so a want for something larger sounding. I know UST pickups have good bass but they always sound a bit too thin for my tastes. What I have learned is that getting that larger than life sound is really not that easy so I think it’s a compromise.

I know part of my issue is that my Taylor is not a warm and large sounding guitar to begin with, even though it’s a dread. Typically UST pickups sound the same in any guitar so I am sure that out front my Taylor sounds nice and big but on stage I struggle. I feel like I am done with experimenting though and might stick with a Matrix/IR set up and also put in a passive Dazzo as I have two output jacks.

[Yamaha Man]

In the 70's, everything I tried sucked.....then I got a Fishman Thinline that wasn't too bad, a few years later I got a Martin Goldline made by Fishman which blew the Thinline away.......Recently I got a Fishman Matrix Infinity which
is the best sounding UST I ever had.....I think it sounds great !!

[SpruceTop]

1977, with my first putty, externally mounted Barcus-Berry on a Martin HD-28's bridge and routed through an external Barcus Berry preamp. This was before I discovered internal mounting on the bridge plate and superglue.

[CarlE]

When I started reading AGF

[lkingston]

I have mic blend pickups in all my acoustic guitars. They sound fantastic plugged in.