Right hand technique question

[TBman]

When playing a free stroke do you sort of push through the string and then "pluck/pick" with the nail or just "pluck/pick" with no push?

[charles Tauber]

I'm not clear on the distinction you are making.

Usually, the nail and flesh of the finger contact the string simultaneously. That is, the string is "contained" in the space between the nail and the tip of the finger prior to plucking, rather than "swatting" the string with one's finger as the finger passes by the string.

The string is in contact with the nail and flesh prior to plucking. This creates an instant of damping the string prior to plucking, giving a "clean" attack. It produces a different sound than "swatting the string" from a plucking action that begins prior to contact with the string. It is a less percussive sound, one in which one doesn't hear a clicking/clacking of the nail striking the string, since the stroke begins with the nail/flesh already in contact with the static string.

One of the reasons to practice scales is to develop this method of "attack".

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Usually, the nail and flesh of the finger contact the string simultaneously. That is, the string is "contained" in the space between the nail and the tip of the finger prior to plucking, rather than "swatting" the string with one's finger as the finger passes by the string.

The string is in contact with the nail and flesh prior to plucking. This creates an instant of damping the string prior to plucking, giving a "clean" attack. It produces a different sound than "swatting the string" from a plucking action that begins prior to contact with the string. It is a less percussive sound, one in which one doesn't hear a clicking/clacking of the nail striking the string, since the stroke begins with the nail/flesh already in contact with the static string.

Hi Barry,
Charles has summarized the technique well. It's what I learned from classical lessons anyway.
The flesh tip of the finger right below the nail hits first, setting the string up for a smooth slide up the nail. It's a downward motion of the string that you want to achieve as opposed to a side swipe or plucking up, both of which would result in a thinner tone.
I just did a small demo of an intro to a piece I'm working on. Maybe it will be helpful to you. Admittedly, it's hard to tell how the string is being plucked here, but my goal was/is always to do it as described above. (Not always successful. )

[Carey]

Good comments above. I can't view Andre's video right now (ISP), but I think
"pushing" on the string is a useful way of thinking, for getting a full-sounding
free stroke. A little alternation with rest stroke can help that along, I think.

Practicing on the open high e string is a good test- if you can make *that* sound good, you're in the money.

Adding: an exercise I've found useful for getting a good sound on the top
string (and knowing where the thing is!) is, free stroke:

c (pinky) - i - a - i - m - i.. Helps for the sense of touch (an issue for me), precision, and overall RH placement, even if you don't use the pinky in normal playing.

[rick-slo]

I always push the string parallel to the guitar top as much a practical (modified rest strokes).
Full rest strokes on some notes (usually some melody note). Usually nails extend one to two
millimeters beyond the tips of the fingers

[Tom_B]

Cannot put it in words so here you go. Hope you can see the link.







https://youtu.be/jReTkVxsy1E

[ssynhorst]

I suggest you listen not so much to us but to your fingers; the tone they produce. In my case the finger tips vary is shape, so I have to file to a different length and angle for each. I adjust every day or two with one of the glass files.

Then there is the thumb: it tends to produce louder notes, but on the bass strings, less bright ones, less prominent. Many guitarists in pop, folk, jazz, steel string, use thumb picks to bring the bass strings into prominence balance with the trebles. This is less a problem with the naturally fine bass tones of the classical/Spanish/Flamenco guitar, but I use a longer nail on the thumb than the fingers. - Stevo

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Tom_B

Cannot put it in words so here you go. Hope you can see the link.







https://youtu.be/jReTkVxsy1E

Ok, I see some pushing going on. That's what I thought you're supposed to do. I was just plucking and coming up with a thin tone. Thanks for the video Tom and thanks everyone for your help.

[Wrighty]

Barry, have a look at some of Tatiana Ryzkhova’s videos on “planting” where she discusses what you are asking about here.

here’s one;

https://youtu.be/h9C50cs1pA8

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

Barry, have a look at some of Tatiana Ryzkhova’s videos on “planting” where she discusses what you are asking about here.

here’s one;

https://youtu.be/h9C50cs1pA8

Thanks Peter, I'll take a look.

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

One of the reasons to practice scales is to develop this method of "attack".

I have to second this -having been working through the Segovia scales on Charles’ recommendation (30 mins/day on all patterns - I’m 13 in of the 27) it’s been a massive help in developing my right hand tone and economy.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

I have to second this -having been working through the Segovia scales on Charles’ recommendation (30 mins/day on all patterns - I’m 13 in of the 27) it’s been a massive help in developing my right hand tone and economy.

I found this video on planting as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFHMwNuvUmM

I'm wondering if I can use this technique with my steel strings also.

I downloaded Segovia's scales from classclef for Guitar Pro and I'll give them a try after I learn more about planting. Thanks!

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by TBman

I found this video on planting as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFHMwNuvUmM

I'm wondering if I can use this technique with my steel strings also.

I downloaded Segovia's scales from classclef for Guitar Pro and I'll give them a try after I learn more about planting. Thanks!

I'll have a look later - I am sure almost all classical techniques have some benefit/place in acoustic playing.

The Segovia scales are very simple but the various fingerings challenged me at the outset, particularly the IMAMI variation, but it really improves if you dedicate some time to it every day and work through all 7 for each scale (at least before that becomes too much, then you vary it) Theres a thread Charles started about this on the classical forum which is worth a look.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

I'll have a look later - I am sure almost all classical techniques have some benefit/place in acoustic playing.

The Segovia scales are very simple but the various fingerings challenged me at the outset, particularly the IMAMI variation, but it really improves if you dedicate some time to it every day and work through all 7 for each scale (at least before that becomes too much, then you vary it) Theres a thread Charles started about this on the classical forum which is worth a look.

I had gotten used to assigning a-1st string, m-2nd string, i-3rd string and then it depended on what was going on for the other strings and p. Sometimes I would use p on 4th, other times i.

Finger to string assignment seems to vary from tune to tune, but I suppose the arranger assigned the right hand fingerings for the flow at performance speed. With something slow, does it really matter? I'm sure with Segovia's scales there's a method going on, I haven't even looked at it yet though.

When can you break from the written assignment to what is comfortable for the individual player or is there no such deviation in reality? I've also noticed in arrangements that you'll get right hand finger assignments for the first couple of measures and then you're on your own for the rest of the tune

Just some ramblings, but its a bit confusing at times.

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by TBman

I had gotten used to assigning a-1st string, m-2nd string, i-3rd string and then it depended on what was going on for the other strings and p. Sometimes I would use p on 4th, other times i.



Finger to string assignment seems to vary from tune to tune, but I suppose the arranger assigned the right hand fingerings for the flow at performance speed. With something slow, does it really matter? I'm sure with Segovia's scales there's a method going on, I haven't even looked at it yet though.



When can you break from the written assignment to what is comfortable for the individual player or is there no such deviation in reality? I've also noticed in arrangements that you'll get right hand finger assignments for the first couple of measures and then you're on your own for the rest of the tune



Just some ramblings, but its a bit confusing at times.

Generally speaking there is no such finger assignment in classical in terms of a string to finger arrangement. It is strictly alternating fingers with no repeats. Often I/M and sometimes I/M/A but always alternating. It does lead to greater efficiency once you adjust to it.