V Class Bracing: why did Taylor make the change?

[PeteyPower16]

Several posts on this forum debate X versus the new V bracing for Taylor guitars. While Taylor players may be more evenly split, most people on this forum (especially traditionalists playing classic instruments) vote unequivocally for the X bracing (and also for traditional tonewoods, I might add—where Taylor has branched out for sustainable woods—always innovating, while Martin focuses on tradition and the roots of the company). For myself, I hear the difference, but see pluses and minuses of each, with a slight preference for X because of bass, warmth, and power being more important to me than resonance, balance, clarity, and perception of intonation—Taylor guitars had plenty of those things already!

I am speculating as to why Taylor made the switch. Was it purely for tonal reasons? Was it to distinguish itself from Martin, and also from earlier Taylor, boosting demands or new sales? Was it to save money per build?

I can imagine it would be expensive to support both types of bracing from one factory, but I am curious if the V bracing is cheaper overall on a per-guitar basis. The X bracing appears to be a more complicated pattern. Do any luthiers know if one style is more materials-intensive or time-intensive than the other? Or is this truly an intended tonal/construction improvement?

Taylor has an expert marketing strategy, trying to convince buyers that sustainable woods can sound as “good” (whatever that means) as traditional tonewoods, and also that visually diverse wood is not a downgrade, even though it is probably cheaper to source. I respect both of these directions, noting the environmental considerations of each, and the ambitious vision to lead the industry toward something new. This would not be the first time a marketing group introduced a directional change as a consumer opportunity. With the V bracing, it is hard for me to discern how much of this is marketing versus a true technical innovation. I do think that Andy Powers really believes in it, is proud of it, and that it is here to stay.

Final question: 15 years from now, will folks search out the X braced “Bob Taylor” Taylors as treasures, the same way they do prewar Martin’s, noting that they are going to be rare and somewhat unattainable? Or will the most sought-after Taylor guitars always be the latest innovated options from the evolving company?

[GCWaters]

Do I have time to make popcorn?!

[TRose]

IMG_1632011452.764489.jpg

This is from the Taylor website. I had to photograph. For some reason I couldn’t copy and paste.

[Wade Hampton]

I’m not enough of a Taylor fan to have a strong opinion, but will say that I like the V-braced 17 Series Grand Pacific models more than any previous Taylors. So I do think that they’re going to be part of the product lineup for a long time to come.

As for the cost of V versus X bracing, I can’t see where that would be enough of a factor to make a difference in the instruments’ profitability either way.


whm

[PeteyPower16]

Originally Posted by GCWaters

Do I have time to make popcorn?!

Haha, you have time to make popcorn, eat it, and then do it all over again. I’m sure this one will raise some opinions. Posts where speculation is part of the query are likely to raise some…speculation, and then counter-speculation.

[Glennwillow]

I hope someone actually has some insight to explain why Taylor moved toward V-bracing.

I suspect that V-bracing is slightly less expensive than X-bracing. I suspect that Andy Powers looked for a way to come up with a bracing pattern that provided differentiation between Taylor guitars and competitors while also lowering costs. I also suspect those cost savings are going towards profits because I have not seen any lowering of Taylor prices.

But I am only guessing. I certainly have no inside information.

The essence of good engineering is making a better product for less cost. So Taylor's approach has been reasonable, but changes like this are always debatable about whether they are positive or negative. Taylor is certainly marketing V-bracing as better.

- Glenn

[FOG01]

Find me a V braced guitar that sounds good (which I take to mean I like how it sounds) and I'd buy, theoretically. After being underwhelmed by the V braced models initially,, I have run into a couple that fit the bill.. Really, it matters not what's under the hood. I am though, perfectly content with my X braced GA and not in the market currently.

[FingahPickah]

I have no issue with V Class as an option. A total replacement - discontinuance of X brace - I'm not sure about. I can see how it could lose some Taylor fan base (a seemingly struggling group on AGF at least), but also perhaps gain or strengthen a modern player/performer group - who even Martin is targeting as well (largely due to Taylor as a major competitor). I have played some V Class models that were absolutely an improvement - particularly Cedar top models, Maple back & sides models and 12 fret 12 strings.

Conversely, I bought an X braced Taylor 324e (Mahogany/Blackwood) after direct A/B comparison to a V Class 324e because I preferred the "voice". BTW - The only Taylor voice I was impressed enough with to want to own - and I've been buying guitars since the 70s. So my take is V Class seems to work well in some but not all cases.

A year later I also bought a new Larrivee 40 Mahogany Legacy Series 000-40 because all the proof I needed in that pudding was apparent as soon as I played it ... and it was not the only option - whether that'll change remains to be seen.

Larrivée Guitars - 40 Mahogany Legacy Series - Products
https://www.larrivee.com/40-mahogany-legacy-series
The revolutionary new 40 Series features our "Scalloped Parabolic Hybrid" bracing system design. Based on our tried and true "X-Brace" design, Jean blended a non-symmetrical scalloped lateral cross-bracing pattern with our standard X-Brace. This means maximum strength using the least amount of material. It's a build that allows even further vibration of the soundboard, while still offering a controlled dynamic

[zoopeda]

V bracing is cheaper to produce in a factory. Less complicated design with much fewer pieces to glue. When you’re making however many thousand guitars a year, all that time savings per guitar adds up. Martin charges less for their a frame braced guitars because it’s fewer braces, cheaper (as a chief reason). Taylor is more slick: they swapped to cheaper bracing but raised prices. Andy’s first x pattern was my favorite. They lost me with V…

X


V

[Rev Roy]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

I like the V-braced 17 Series Grand Pacific models more than any previous Taylors.

whm

Yep, me too. And no surprise. Andy has said he originally designed V-bracing for GPs…though that model wasn’t ultimately introduced until a year after V-bracing hit the top of the line. We’ll never know what GPs would have sounded like with X- bracing given their late intro. But to my ears they are the best sounding Taylors available.

[Spats Davenport]

I confess to having been biased against Taylors because they did not it the bill for a wannabee Irish bluesman!

But I procured a 114 about five years ago, and soon thereafter a 712e 12 fret. I subsequently gave the 114 to my brother because he bought me my first guitar 35 years ago.

I was excited when the V bracing came out and it appeals to the engineer in me too. Ultimately, it didn't sound that different to me, but does, nonetheless, sound beautiful; the world has enough X braces, and I think it was a brave move.

[dnf777]

Great question, and I think you answered most of the questions already in your OP. I am admittedly not a huge Taylor fan, but now am the happy owner of a GTe urban ash and AD17 blacktop. After some set up tweaks on the GT, I am now happy with both.

I respect Taylor for innovating and trying to "make it work" with non-traditional tonewoods, which I suspect will become more scarce and expensive, for those who desire them. Which is fine. But Taylor is trying to fill an anticipated void in the mid to upper-mid priced guitars.

One distinction that will remain, I believe, is that Martin will stay with more individually built guitars, while Taylor will likely continue to improve expand more of an assembly line model of building with automation. (of course Martin does this as well, to a lesser degree). That is fine, and buyers can decide for themselves which is best for them.

One more factor is the American Heritage, Legacy factor...and for those who value this, Martin will likely remain on the top of their list. Again, personal decision, and who knows? Taylor may join them as an American icon, but that will take lots of time.

As for manufacturing costs (One of your proposals for V-bracing) I'm not sure how this would be cheaper (cost wise) than X bracing. there are still two notches that have to be fit (EASY for CAM) and two additional braces. I guess the lack of the upper bout bracing is due to Taylors neck joint design, which does not rely on the top's strength for support as much. Time will tell...

[tbeltrans]

The answer to why Taylor moved to V bracing is really quite simple...

They like to poke the hornet's nest that is AGF! All the threads and arguments back and forth serve to generate interest and sales. When that much discussion is stirred up, potential buyers see that something big is happening and they want in on it. It worked, so V bracing stays.

In the interest of transparency, I have three V braced Taylors and like them just fine. I also have X braced guitars and like them just fine too.

Edit: I forgot to put my comments (except those about the Taylors I currently own) in context, so here it is:

It is always entertaining when the V-class threads get rolling.

Tony

[mischultz]

Because it’s Andy’s vision. I think the economic question is marginal at best, both in an absolute sense and relative to Taylor’s ability to price in the market. There may well be a fractional savings in material and/or automated labor cost, but nothing they couldn’t capture and balance on the back end.

The GPs and GTs (not V but hang with me for a moment) sound like very particular things and unlike Taylor’s last 20 years. That’s the point. The V exists because it’s what helps Andy realize his vision for what a guitar should accomplish. If it had been a trident or a bass clef, it would’ve been for the same reason.

[The Bard Rocks]

I'd expect that a component of this decision is market-based, to show they are innovating and offering something no one else does. One could imagine Taylor's "mystique" to be not tradition, but innovation.