Is this neck angle OK or not?

[DCCougar]

The saddle looks fine to me, with a decent break angle, but the neck angle does not look good since the straight edge hits below the top of the bridge. It's not horrible, but this usually makes the action up the fretboard too high. If the action is OK for now, then there's no real problem, but that straight edge test is a bit concerning.

[Mbroady]

The Saddle has room to be lowered but the neck angle would concern me. Depending on the price, If it came to me like that I would say it’s not as described and send it back, or ask for a partial refund in the amount of a neck reset, which can run between $400 and $600, depending on where you live.

The neck might never move but if it did move, even just a little, there would be no room left to make adjustments

[JackB1]

The seller is willing to pay up to 500 for a neck reset, but I’m not sure that I want to keep the guitar if it does in fact need a neck reset. So I’m kind of conflicted as to what to do. He is also willing to take it back for a refund.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by JackB1

I agree, but neck angle is something most average guitar players/sellers aren't really knowledgeable about. This guitar is a 2014 and the seller said he bought it new and has never done any work to it. He said it even had the original strings on it. It's possible it was a return that was resold as new and it's also possible the seller isn't being 100% honest, although he seems to be.

The saddle has definitely been reduced, so is it possible it came out of the factory like that? The neck angle isn't "way off", so is it possible they sanded the saddle to get the guitar to the desired initial specs? The seller agreed to refund me, but didn't say if they would reimburse me to ship it back to him. That might cost me over $100.

Here's what you requested in post #2:
"Can anyone offer some advice?"

I can tell you SOMEBODY did that saddle job. Martin saddles don't ship looking like they've been hacked with a pocket knife.

If you're worried that you might need to eat the shipping then it's a judgement call you have to make. Keep it and consider that you learned something about the intricacies of guitar manufacturing and setup.

[redir]

If you took that guitar to my shop and asked me to reset the neck I would refuse to do it because it doesn't need to be done. It's too bad that this 'trick' of using a straight edge to determine if the guitars neck needs to be set ever got out there in the wild because it is not always a sure fire thing. It's just a tool in a plethora of other variables to determine if a neck needs to be reset.

Or let me put it to you another way. Another common adage is that the strings should be be 1/2in over the soundboard at the bridge to get the best tone. You said that is where yours measure so now if you go and reset the neck it will be much higher than that. Then when you sell the guitar the next guy is going to come here on the AGF complaining that he bought a guitar with a neck that is over set and squashing out the tone of the instrument

You have plenty of room to play with the setup on that guitar. So stop worrying about it

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by redir

If you took that guitar to my shop and asked me to reset the neck I would refuse to do it because it doesn't need to be done. It's too bad that this 'trick' of using a straight edge to determine if the guitars neck needs to be set ever got out there in the wild because it is not always a sure fire thing. It's just a tool in a plethora of other variables to determine if a neck needs to be reset.

Or let me put it to you another way. Another common adage is that the strings should be be 1/2in over the soundboard at the bridge to get the best tone. You said that is where yours measure so now if you go and reset the neck it will be much higher than that. Then when you sell the guitar the next guy is going to come here on the AGF complaining that he bought a guitar with a neck that is over set and squashing out the tone of the instrument

You have plenty of room to play with the setup on that guitar. So stop worrying about it

My main worry is that the saddle is so short that there's no more room to go on it. Look at this picture comparing a normal Martin saddle (above) to this one (below) There's quite a difference.

[Boozehound]

Is that 'reference' saddle a normal saddle from another Martin, or a completely uncut Martin saddle? It looks huge. The other one looks closer to what I typically have after adjusting mine (maybe a little smaller).

I'm honestly a little surprised that the seller is willing to refund you $500 for a neck reset based on that saddle. Particularly with 1/2" height above the soundboard. There is a range of neck set angles, and while you might be able to argue it's closer to underset than overset, it looks well within spec to me. Did you remove all relief from the neck prior to trying the straightedge test? If you have relief in the neck it can skew the results.

Also - that looks like a micarta saddle. What kind of Martin is this? Does it have a dovetail neck joint? If not, an eventual neck reset may be a very minor operation.

Having said that, you sound like somebody who wants/needs a neck leaning toward the overset end of the spectrum to feel good about it.

[redir]

Originally Posted by JackB1

My main worry is that the saddle is so short that there's no more room to go on it. Look at this picture comparing a normal Martin saddle (above) to this one (below) There's quite a difference.

There is an acceptable range of 'normal' where the saddle is concerned. Ideally you would want a saddle that is already providing sufficient action for the guitar with room to adjust it in the future. What I see in your pics and description of this guitar is that you have all of that.

Granted if the pics and the description are flawed then I will be proven wrong. So maybe you should take it to a good tech in your area and have them look at it.

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by redir

There is an acceptable range of 'normal' where the saddle is concerned. Ideally you would want a saddle that is already providing sufficient action for the guitar with room to adjust it in the future. What I see in your pics and description of this guitar is that you have all of that.

Granted if the pics and the description are flawed then I will be proven wrong. So maybe you should take it to a good tech in your area and have them look at it.

OK that's good to know. I was just concerned the saddle was running out of room to adjust lower if that needed to be done in the future.

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by TheGITM

Just wondering if string tension was affecting the neck at all.

Of course it is. And the relief he's getting is fine.

To the OP:

You don't need to have a neck reset until the saddle gets low enough where it's either not up off the bridge any more or the string break angle to the pins is adversely affected.

In other words, find out how much the saddle needs to be lowered to get the action you want. Maybe take it to a local luthier.

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by runamuck

Of course it is. And the relief he's getting is fine.

To the OP:

You don't need to have a neck reset until the saddle gets low enough where it's either not up off the bridge any more or the string break angle to the pins is adversely affected.

In other words, find out how much the saddle needs to be lowered to get the action you want. Maybe take it to a local luthier.

I sanded it down a little and the action is good now. I just hope the neck doesn't move anymore. It's only a 2016.

[cliff_the_stiff]

Originally Posted by warfrat73

I'm not sure why you're saying that there's no room to bring the saddle any lower. It sure looks like there's more than enough saddle there to bring the action to where you want, and likely even a bit lower. You want to lower the action at the 12th by about .01", you need to remove .02" from the saddle... unless your pictures are very misleading, it seems that wouldn't be a problem.

That also looks like a particularly thick bridge. To the best of my understanding, Martin uses a couple of difference thickness bridges to accommodate minor differences in neck angle.

The straightedge to the top of the bridge thing is only meant as a rough guideline taken into account with other considerations.

…This☝️
All true. before you need a neck reset, you can also have an experienced luthier shave a little off the top off the bridge to allow for a better break angle on your strings as you lower the saddle a hair.
This is the price we pay for the tone of a dovetail neck joint.

[cliff_the_stiff]

Originally Posted by JackB1

My main worry is that the saddle is so short that there's no more room to go on it. Look at this picture comparing a normal Martin saddle (above) to this one (below) There's quite a difference.

A saddle from a different Martin (or any other guitar for that matter) is not a good reference. It’s simply a great comparison showing how much variation in the degree of neck angle/ and bridge height will result in saddle height variation.
All measures are relative to the guitar and neck that it is on.
Looking at the photos, and if this were one of mine, I would measure the action of my favorite playing guitar, and then compare it to this one. Do the math, if it’s only the difference between.100 and.090, you are sanding off 0.020 or about a half mm. from the bass side, I would do that, and be done. I think there is plenty of saddle there.

[phavriluk]

Ah, yes, the 'tone of a dovetail joint'. Collings, Bourgeois, Huss & Dalton, Taylor all are operating under an insuperable handicap. Martin told you so. so it must be true.

[samcatluth]

I don't know where you live but here in N.E. Ohio we have had the most humid summer in recent memory. That can raise the action on a guitar. Just something to consider. Jeff B