Emerald doesn't want to work with me anymore - Page 3

Godfather · #31 08-18-2021, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acousticado

And there you have it. Well said, Jim.

Point well made Jim.

DethWshBkr · #32 08-18-2021, 04:48 PM

Lets put it this way as well.....

If Emerald had a local place I could have taken my RainSong along, and played an X30 before I bought one, I probably would not have bought one. There are certain things about my X30 that I do not like as much as my RainSong. There are 1 or two things I like better, but those would not have swayed me to spend $3300. I bought my Emerald on the hope that it would be superior to my RainSong, and it is not. But, it is good enough, and absolutely so gorgeous, that I have ZERO desire to sell it. Even if someone came along and offered to pay $500 more than I paid for it, I wouldn't do it. It's too unique to get rid of, and I'd regret it forever.

Last week when I finally went "on my own" and I was the acoustic player on stage, I didn't even think about using the Emerald. The RainSong just feels better and plays easier.

tbeltrans · #33 08-18-2021, 05:32 PM

To me, it is all fairly straightforward.

Emerald has their business model and none of us is in Alistair's shoes, so it makes no sense for any of us to think we know what he should or shouldn't do with his business.

From the customer side, if a person is comfortable with buying long distance and has a pretty good idea of what s/he wants in a guitar before having actually played it, then that is a customer that Emerald might be able to work with.

As I described in my previous post, I am not at all that person. I know that about myself and would therefore never engage in such a transaction. This has nothing to do with Emerald. I am sure their products are stellar. It strictly has to do with me and knowing what I am comfortable with, and knowing that buying sight unseen and long distance would likely prove painful for Emerald and me. I would also therefore never commission a guitar to be built.

Tony

#34 08-18-2021, 05:56 PM

To me the glory of Emerald has been the possible customizations. I can't think of any other maker who accepted design protocols from players at reasonable prices. I've had a chance to order 6 Emeralds in various configurations and have really enjoyed his business plan..

tbeltrans · #35 08-18-2021, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvanB

To me the glory of Emerald has been the possible customizations. I can't think of any other maker who accepted design protocols from players at reasonable prices. I've had a chance to order 6 Emeralds in various configurations and have really enjoyed his business plan..

Over the past several years, it does seem that aspect of Emerald generated much of the excitement around this forum.

My McPhersons, as fine as they are, remind me a bit of early Ford Model T, when you can have any color you want as long as it is black. Great guitars and for me personally, I am more comfortable with that more limited choice, especially when the guitars are so well executed.

But for the more adventurous among us, Emerald represented a whole new frontier in guitar making.

Tony

Captain Jim · #36 08-18-2021, 09:41 PM

There are a lot of great options among the carbon fiber manufacturers. While the Emerald customs have received a lot of attention, the main thing (to me) that they continue to bring to the table is the advancement in design. I've heard a lot of descriptive terms for the Emerald designs (new age, spacey, swoopy, modern... and not all flattering). To me, what carbon fiber brings to guitar manufacturing is what Emerald does best: design guitars that are more ergonomic than traditional designs. They can make them cool, gorgeous, unique, with the veneers and colors, but it is the fact that they take advantage by molding in the compound curves and bevels that make them fit most people so well. The current soundhole design is a true delight, bringing all that great sound to the player as well as the audience.

RainSong is a bit too traditional-looking for my tastes, but that is what a lot of guitar players prefer, and it is what brought me into the carbon fiber fold. They make nice guitars. If there is a "carbon fiber tone," it was a RainSong that sold me on it.

Journey found a niche with removable necks that pack down small, but still sound good. A less expensive alternative, but still nice guitars.

Blackbird is bringing us eKoa designs, while it seems that they have moved away from carbon fiber, it is still a composite material, and may be a result of building in the state they are in. They make nice instruments.

McPherson makes great guitars. Wood, carbon fiber - doesn't matter the material, they know how to make them. They have their own style and sound. I really appreciate what they bring to the CF marketplace.

Composite Acoustics seems to be out of the carbon fiber business, but they were pioneers in the field. If your timing is right, you can still find these on the used market.

There are a couple others we don't hear much about, but that may be US-centric.

All this to say: as players we have some fine options. Rather than get hung up that "the ideal" has to have certain specifications/sizes, celebrate what these makers can do for us. I used to think there was one neck that was my ideal... after 56 years of making guitar music, I find that my less-than-nimble hands can still adapt to a variety of sizes and shapes... if my mind can let that happen (the guitars in my meager collection are proof of that). In the grand scheme of guitar playing, a half inch of scale length one way or another doesn't have to be a deal-breaker. Body sizes of guitars can fit a variety of human body sizes (who here hasn't seen those 6 to 8 year old Chinese children playing full-size guitars?).

It really is a great time to be a guitar player.

jdrnd · #37 08-19-2021, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RP

I still believe that Emerald would benefit from a program in the US where it seems their sales are greatest in which customers would offer potential customers the opportunity to audition various models...

I agree with you.

seannx · #38 08-19-2021, 06:40 AM

Emerald’s business model seems to be working just fine for them. The wait time is reasonable, and being made of carbon fiber, their guitars aren’t subject to anything like the individual variations between wood guitars.

I took a chance and ordered a stock X20 based on reviews and info in this forum. The only thing I didn’t like about it was the scale length, so I ordered a custom X20 with a 24.875” short scale neck, the same as my 12 fret RainSong. The custom X20's sound was very, very similar, and the only significant difference was that it was more comfortable for me to play. My original X20 sold quickly in the classifieds, and the new owner loves it.

Would have it been nice to try an Emerald first, sure, but I think prices would have to go up for dealers to carry them and make a profit, and one of Emerald's strengths is the degree of customization they offer.

Rudy4 · #39 08-21-2021, 07:33 PM

Some owners are downright rabid in spreading their appreciation for certain brands.

How about a network of owners who might be willing to offset their ownership cost by meeting prospective owners at the local police station for a paid half hour of evaluation and a bit of actual playing time for a particular Emerald?

If I was going to spend that kind of money sight unseen it seems reasonable to pay an owner (maybe $50?) to get up close and personal before making a purchase decision.

...just an idea of how the "cart before the horse" ordering problem might be overcome.

steelvibe · #40 08-21-2021, 08:27 PM

There are CF makers in America that you cannot find stock of their guitars in GC or most mom-and-pop stores. When have you seen a RainSong? A Composite Acoustics?

Here is a very common scenario regarding Emerald; someone buys one and decides it isn't for them. No more FOMO and their curiosity is forever satisfied. No harm and no foul. Providing these guitars are being sold used at a reasonable price they don't stay on the market long.

To your point though, one thing that I would advise against is to do is a custom Emerald for your first buy. You cannot return to the manufacturer if you don't like it, and probably won't recoup your cost for customization that does not appeal to the masses.

#41 08-21-2021, 08:31 PM

The McNichol road trips were really instructive. A given guitar would be sent to a player who for a nominal fee would have the instrument for 4 or five days and then ship it on to the next person on the list. A lot of guitars got shipped around the country and a lot of people got to try a guitar before purchase. Even better, they got to try the instrument in their own home. I was on a number of the road trips and found them interesting and valuable.

Those road trips may have also been a logistics nightmare. I know Michael worked hard to bring carbon fiber instruments to a wide audience and it must have been really time consuming.

An option, but not an easy one.

Chipotle · #42 08-21-2021, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvanB

The McNichol road trips were really instructive. A given guitar would be sent to a player who for a nominal fee would have the instrument for 4 or five days and then ship it on to the next person on the list. A lot of guitars got shipped around the country and a lot of people got to try a guitar before purchase. Even better, they got to try the instrument in their own home.

When I bought my Composite Acoustics GX, I wasn't absolutely sure about it, esp. for a $3K guitar, without trying first--plus, if I liked it, I wanted to order a custom. Fortunately, Sweetwater carried them at the time. They have a "no-hassle" return policy, and I took advantage (with my sales rep's full knowledge). If I didn't like it after a week or so, I'd return it and only be out the shipping cost. If I was happy, I'd place the custom order... and I did.

It worked well for me, and Sweetwater has the resources to do that, but I certainly can see why Emerald can't sustainably work on that sort of a model.

casualmusic · #43 08-21-2021, 10:31 PM

..........

jdrnd · #44 08-22-2021, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seannx

Emerald’s business model seems to be working just fine for them...

For now.

All companies need feedback from their customers/clients/patients. This helps them to adjust their service and product. It is useful to Emerald, to hear from those of us who don't like certain aspects of their company and their product.

The American car companies mantra in the 60s was that everything was about style. They didn't hear the feedback from customers about the need for reliability, and so Honda and Toyota stole their lunch.

The message to Emerald is we want to play the guitar before we buy. At least that's my message

ac · #45 08-22-2021, 08:59 AM

There's an old adage I once heard (in connection with tennis--though likely it was borrowed from elsewhere):

--You never change a winning game.
--You always change a losing game.

This probably applies to guitar company strategies as well. If a strategy shows a steady pattern of failure, I'm sure there is a need to reevaluate and the door will open to other possibilities.

But if a business model is working well, customers keep ordering--the majority satisfied--and they are growing, I personally would think twice before beginning a significant strategy change such as using 3rd party middlemen.

It doesn't appear to be necessary at all for Emerald at this point.