Emerald doesn't want to work with me anymore

[KarenB]

I was thinking in 2019 of flying to Ireland in the spring of 2020. But that became a non-option. Ditto for this year. I've always wanted to go to Ireland.

[Captain Jim]

I guess I don't see that Emerald has "banned" you - they said they are not building custom guitars to the point you are asking for. I understand their position. Questions are part of selling any product, but there comes a point when the questions have been asked and answered. Beyond that point, it just becomes an exercise.

I have written and deleted 3 posts to get to this, my concern being that what I write might be considered harsh.

There are a lot of people who think a business exists to serve its customers. Most business owners will tell you that a business exists to make a profit, provide a good work environment for its staff/owner/management (including pay and benefits), and build good relationships with its target customer base.

We've all heard the old saying, "The customer is always right." I assure you, that is certainly not the case. More like: the customer has the right to "vote" with their dollars, and the business has the right to say, "Since we seem to be unable to please you, it would be best for all concerned that you take your business elsewhere."

A small business that deals direct with customers (no dealers) can easily establish a "track record" with their customer base.

On the flip side for Karen, it may take some road trippin', but the other carbon fiber manufacturers do have (limited) dealers. I'm not aware of any of them who make a slim-line body with a 25" scale. If carbon fiber is what you desire, you may have to adjust your tolerances.

Good luck with the search.

[Hoyt]

Honestly, I’ve always felt that it is my responsibility for a custom guitar that is delivered in acceptable condition expected for the price.

Size, feel, etc.— think you should keep guitar, work with it, and if it still doesn’t meet your needs, sell it.

Don’t blame them.

[Acousticado]

Over the years, compared to the competition, Emerald has spoiled us with their ability and willingness to adapt/customize to our wants. That has kept them on the edge of innovation which likely won’t change.

However, circumstances have evolved such that their business model probably dictates that they can’t be as flexible as they once were. Still, they are ahead of others in that regard.

Karen, as I’m sure you know, Alistair is a great guy who likely agonized over such a reply to you, and I applaud your understanding. In years past, I pushed the envelope with my three iterations of Chimaera (6/12 doubleneck) where he was so amenable to providing me with an instrument I’d be happy with. I’ve since drifted away from doublenecks, but what Emerald is producing is stellar.

[KarenB]

Purchasing a guitar before playing it, is a risky game, Sound, feel, are so essential. Not for everyone. But surely for me. Returns to me, are essential if I purchase w/o playing it before hand.

And Emerald does have a return policy on the guitars they sell.

I was just sending feelers out to Emerald to see if they were still doing custom work. Again, the first 2 instruments I purchased and sent back were not custom.

This all came up because I saw an X10 slimline for sale on Emerald's website. I could have just purchased the X10 slimline with the opportunity of sending it back. Of course, there is expense involved in customs, shipping back and forth to Ireland. However, I have played many 25 1/2 scale guitars and much prefer shorter scale, though not as short as 24".

Again I stress that Emerald is a good company. I harbor no ill will towards them. Thanks to this forum for a place to share feelings, viewpoints.

Thanks to all who have brought their insights to this thread.

[tbeltrans]

I can see both the customer and the business owner aspect of this kind of situation. From what KarenB has said, she has described my buying habits - try before you buy.

In these forums over the years, there are certain guitar models/brands that seem to be almost unanimously raved about. Back when The Podium was around, I was fortunate to have the chance to play a number of the higher end of such models. I found for myself that many of these raved about guitars just didn't do it for me for one reason or another, none reflecting on the quality of the guitar. Some were simply too large for me to play comfortably, while others may have had a neck shape that didn't suit me.

I have also had the opportunity to try a number of Rainsong guitars over the years, and discovered that their neck shape doesn't work for me either.

Had I not been able to play any of these guitars, I probably would have bought sight unseen based on the glowing reviews in these forums, as I am sure many here who are not within reach of such guitar collections must do. I would have been disappointed and, like KarenB, returned the guitars.

Personally, I would not want the hassle of having to box up a guitar to ship, which is why I sell through local shops on consignment instead of advertising where I would directly sell to somebody quite a distance from me. So I would likewise not want the hassle of doing this with a guitar I had purchased long distance and needed to return.

Knowing this about myself, I simply won't engage in a long distance purchase of a guitar, and therefore only purchase locally where I can try before I buy.

There was a time when Emerald contacted me and offered to send me a guitar to try, based on my involvement in threads here. I turned that offer down for the reasons I have cited in this post, though I appreciated the offer.

We are all different in all things guitar. Many here seem to either not mind, or enjoy purchasing guitars long distance and the whole shipping guitars thing doesn't seem a hassle for them. I know myself well enough to simply not engage in that, and also have chosen to live in an area where the types of guitars that interest me are available locally.

Following this thread, I think that both KarenB and Emerald seem to have handled the situation admirably and I sincerely hope that KarenB finds what she is looking for. My suggestion is a road trip/vacation to a city where the kinds of guitars she is looking for are plentiful.

Have fun...

Tony

[Methos1979]

I would agree with Alistair's position. I know a short while back he made the blanket statement that they are dialing back from the 'anything goes' customization process although I don't recall that he thoroughly quantified just what customizations would go and what would stay. I imagine they base that on how much time and effort a customization would incur on their end. I further imagine that any slimline body guitar would be significant extra work.

But in the end, the fact that you sent back two guitars because you didn't like them (vs. there was a build or quality issue with them) surely has impacted their decision not to work with you and rightfully so. I wouldn't say you've been 'banned'. They have just made a wise business decision based on your track record. Ordering custom guitars is a tricky business. You think you know what you will like but until it's in your hands you just don't know.

Returning a custom order because it didn't fit you, which they then have to find an owner for and sell as used is an unnecessary hit to their bottom line which with a company as small as Emerald is a significant business consideration. I would highly encourage you to make that trip to Ireland (when feasible) and visit the factory. At the very least, Ireland is a great place to visit! We can't wait to go back!!

[RP]

Emerald seems to have found a sales model that works for them, but it doesn't necessarily work for all of their customers and potential customers. That model didn't work in Karen's case, and I suppose it's to be expected that Emerald won't be all things to all customers. I still believe that Emerald would benefit from a program in the US where it seems their sales are greatest in which customers would offer potential customers the opportunity to audition various models...

RP;

Alistair considered outlets in the US, actually travelled through the country making visits to possible vendors. As things stand he seems to be doing quite well with his current business model. It may also be that there are limits to just how big he wants to get. I don't think we'll see him having guitars made in China and sold through multiple franchises.

[Godfather]

Originally Posted by RP

Emerald seems to have found a sales model that works for them, but it doesn't necessarily work for all of their customers and potential customers…………I still believe that Emerald would benefit from a program in the US where it seems their sales are greatest in which customers would offer potential customers the opportunity to audition various models...

…..or offer a select group of retailers not for sale demo models that could be played by potential customers. The customer could then ordered through said dealer who in return would receive a commission for the sale.

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by Godfather

…..or offer a select group of retailers not for sale demo models that could be played by potential customers. The customer could then ordered through said dealer who in return would receive a commission for the sale.

That’s an interesting idea. As CF guitars are so uniform compared to wood, what the customer orders and receives would be the same as that tried in the store...except for certain customizations, of course.

I wonder if Alistair has considered such an approach. It could be a matter of his interest, or not, in growth. It seems that he has a real good thing going now that likely offers a good business/quality of life balance. Bigger isn’t always better.

[Godfather]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

That’s an interesting idea. As CF guitars are so uniform compared to wood, what the customer orders and receives would be the same as that tried in the store...except for certain customizations, of course.

I wonder if Alistair has considered such an approach. It could be a matter of his interest, or not, in growth. It seems that he has a real good thing going now that likely offers a good business/quality of life balance. Bigger isn’t always better.

It would be a win win. The dealer would have no inventory expense, but still have income from the sale and Emerald would have increased sales…i.e. profit. Hopefully Emerald would like to increase sales.

I don't see why Emerald would want to increase sales beyond what it now has. It looks to me like the Emerald family is nicely supported with current sales, the Emerald homestead is looking good, and the profits do not need to be shared with middlefolks.

I don't view Alistair as a corporate type or interested in sharing his business with anyone other than his associates and the players he serves.

[Captain Jim]

The above suggestions are one more layer of complexity, a decision Emerald made to eliminate by selling direct. I think they appreciate the opportunity to deal direct with their customer.

From a business point of view, let me ask this question: if Emerald were to have a commissioned sales outlet, how much of the price of the guitar should go to that outlet? I ask this because when we owned various businesses, I had a barrage of people offering to "show my work," in return for a discount. I ran the numbers... to discount the price 10%, I would have to increase sales by more than 40% to make the same net. Now, think about that for a moment: if you were an employee, would you be willing to take on 40% more work for the same pay? That is exactly what happens to a business owner who is offering a labor intensive product and feels the need to discount or pay a commission.

Contrast that with a business that plans for increased capacity without having to reduce their price. Much smarter from a business point of view. Bigger is not always better with many products, especially when the product can't be mass produced AND depends on the ingenuity of one (or a few) people.

It has been pointed out that people can see both sides of this issue, and Karen specifically said pointing out this situation wasn't meant "to drag Emerald through the mud." BUT, look at the title. She didn't say, "I took up a lot of their time asking questions and requesting a guitar that they don't build." Or, "I bought guitars and returned them because I didn't like the size." The size and specifications are out there; I know I have measured my guitars and posted that info because of questions asked here. I have ordered 3 Emeralds and the only surprise has been: how good these instruments are in sound and ergonomics compared to other, more traditional, designs.

This discussion of "Emerald should have dealers or outlets in the US so I can try one more conveniently" comes up from time to time here. The economics of it never make sense. I recall going through the business costs involved vs sales previously. Frankly, I think Emerald has hit on a business model that works well for their particular product. The "dealer model" works for more mass produced items... there are not enough buyers for carbon fiber guitars at this time for anyone to make the HUGE capital investment on production equipment.

I admit it: I truly enjoy my carbon fiber guitars. I appreciate how they play, how they sound, and how they look. I think everyone should have a carbon fiber guitar or three, but the vast majority of guitar players out there don't have that same opinion. It is very much a niche market. Smart business people can make a good living selling to a niche market. Not so smart business people can overestimate the market and take a financial beating.

Most going concerns of this type are fortunate to net 8% or so, after paying fixed costs (usually called overhead), payroll, taxes, advertising, and the materials for the cost of goods sold. Most small businesses put everything they make back into the business. Having been there, I admire small business concerns for putting it all out there, year in and year out.

Should every small business try to make every sale? My experience has been that a business should try to optimize each sale, and know when a business transaction should be passed on.

Let's look at it from one more perspective: that of the person or business that would consider being Emerald's "US Outlet"... how many guitars a week could you add to Emerald's sales? Five, ten? Realistically, looking at the weekly shipping videos, I would be surprised if it would work out to more than two. At a 10% cut on those sales, could you live on $600 per week after paying the business expenses to have an outlet? (rent, taxes, payroll, etc, etc). Would another guitar shop entertain this? A dealer can make a lot more per unit by having something in stock that the customer can carry out the door. And now you are right back to the business model that Emerald left behind to sell direct instead. For a reason.

OK, this got WAY too long and wordy... TL/DR. If anyone here has the next best idea for how to sell guitars to a niche market, step right up and show us how it is done. Obviously the "try it for 30 days, then return it" sales model hasn't worked for Guitar Center's bottom line. One outlet shops suffer from people "shopping," then ordering online because they can get it cheaper elsewhere. Seems to me that Emerald has figured out what works for them.

[Acousticado]

And there you have it. Well said, Jim.