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Old 03-17-2022, 08:40 AM
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Default Emerald X20 - Pre/Post Changes...

Alistair details the changes made in 2020 to the Emerald X20 in the video below, and I'm just curious how many of you detected significant tonal differences between the two. I had previously owned the old-style X20, but its tone left me flat. However, I decided to give the X20 another chance last year, and to me the tonal differences are significant, at least based on my memory since I didn't own them both at the same time. My old X20 was a plain Jane black one while my newer one has a Black Limba veneer. Alistair has said that their veneers are purely cosmetic so the veneer on my newer one shouldn't be the difference, but it's got a louder, more resonant quality nevertheless. Could the difference be attributed to the pinleess bridge which Alitsair says directs the sound more directly to the soundboard. Anybody else detected tonal differences???

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Old 03-17-2022, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by RP View Post
Alistair details the changes made in 2020 to the Emerald X20 in the video below, and I'm just curious how many of you detected significant tonal differences between the two. I had previously owned the old-style X20, but its tone left me flat. However, I decided to give the X20 another chance last year, and to me the tonal differences are significant, at least based on my memory since I didn't own them both at the same time. My old X20 was a plain Jane black one while my newer one has a Black Limba veneer. Alistair has said that their veneers are purely cosmetic so the veneer on my newer one shouldn't be the difference, but it's got a louder, more resonant quality nevertheless. Could the difference be attributed to the pinleess bridge which Alitsair says directs the sound more directly to the soundboard. Anybody else detected tonal differences???
I only have my X-30.
It may not be true that the veneer type (or absence of ) has no effect on the sound. It also may not be true that each instrument is identical. The sound may vary from instrument to instrument due to micro variations in the construction of each guitar.
The problem with not having an outpost in North America, is that you can't go to a store with multiple Emerald X 20s (or X 30s), and play them side-by-side.
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Old 03-17-2022, 01:40 PM
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I only have my X-30.
It may not be true that the veneer type (or absence of ) has no effect on the sound. It also may not be true that each instrument is identical. The sound may vary from instrument to instrument due to micro variations in the construction of each guitar.
The problem with not having an outpost in North America, is that you can't go to a store with multiple Emerald X 20s (or X 30s), and play them side-by-side.
And most importantly, it may not be true that my aural memory is very accurate. However, that said, I still must wonder if others have found a significant tonal difference between the original X20s and those built after 2020...
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Old 03-17-2022, 02:40 PM
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I’m in Roanoke with a prior version x20. So if you ever want to test your aural memory with a direct comparison let me know.

I’d be willing to match strings, but I guess we would still have to consider the potentially vast differences between your black limba and my padauk veneer.
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Old 03-17-2022, 03:08 PM
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Regarding the possible effect of the veneer this previous thread has some useful info. In particular see post #17 by byudzai who has (or had) two X20s, one with a veneer and one without. He noticed no difference in tone. Seems reasonable since after sanding the veneer is quite thin — around 0.3 mm if memory serves.
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Old 03-17-2022, 03:57 PM
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Regarding the possible effect of the veneer this previous thread has some useful info. In particular see post #17 by byudzai who has (or had) two X20s, one with a veneer and one without. He noticed no difference in tone. Seems reasonable since after sanding the veneer is quite thin — around 0.3 mm if memory serves.
I guess the initial question remains is there a difference in tone between the two X20 models, and secondary to that might be which difference(s) in the models might cause the difference in tone...

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I’m in Roanoke with a prior version x20. So if you ever want to test your aural memory with a direct comparison let me know...
Sounds like a plan once things fully warm up...
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Old 03-17-2022, 07:09 PM
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RP,

I understand the question you are looking to answer. Do Emerald guitars of the same model with different bridges or slightly modified construction sound different.

I am framing the question a little differently.
It appears to me that Emeralds selling point is that any guitar of the same model with the same specs is indistinguishable regardless of veneer presence, veneer type, or weave color.

I am asking whether a blindfolded Emerald guitar owner if handed their guitar model, would be able to tell whether they were playing their own guitar or another guitar with identical specs.
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Old 03-17-2022, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RP View Post
Alistair details the changes made in 2020 to the Emerald X20 in the video below, and I'm just curious how many of you detected significant tonal differences between the two. I had previously owned the old-style X20, but its tone left me flat. However, I decided to give the X20 another chance last year, and to me the tonal differences are significant, at least based on my memory since I didn't own them both at the same time. My old X20 was a plain Jane black one while my newer one has a Black Limba veneer. Alistair has said that their veneers are purely cosmetic so the veneer on my newer one shouldn't be the difference, but it's got a louder, more resonant quality nevertheless. Could the difference be attributed to the pinleess bridge which Alitsair says directs the sound more directly to the soundboard. Anybody else detected tonal differences???


Earl49

Side by side new vs old X20: https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=600111

Trying new strings fix for new X20: https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=599755


Byudzai

Post #5 old X20 double tin can: https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=587290

Happy with new X20: https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=599896


.
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Old 03-18-2022, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrnd View Post
RP,

I understand the question you are looking to answer. Do Emerald guitars of the same model with different bridges or slightly modified construction sound different.

I am framing the question a little differently.
It appears to me that Emeralds selling point is that any guitar of the same model with the same specs is indistinguishable regardless of veneer presence, veneer type, or weave color.

I am asking whether a blindfolded Emerald guitar owner if handed their guitar model, would be able to tell whether they were playing their own guitar or another guitar with identical specs.
I don't believe you're framing the question a little differently; I believe that's a different question. I also don't believe that "Emerald's selling point is that any guitar of the same model with the same specs is indistinguishable regardless of veneer presence, veneer type, or weave color." While that may be implied from their production techniques, you're the first in my memory to state that as a selling point. I suppose that a performer who uses different tunings might want to have access on stage to multiple instruments that are the same model but tuned differently, but most of us who own more than a single Emerald are probably going to own different Emerald models.

Emerald's selling points IMO are that they build beautiful, amazingly comfortable and infinitely customizable instruments that look good, sound good and offer incredible playability. In addition, they offer the added benefit of being impervious to changes in temperature and humidity. An added benefit that's often overlooked is that the two-month wait time for a custom order is pretty darn good compared to custom orders from other companies and individual builders...
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Last edited by RP; 03-18-2022 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 03-18-2022, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RP View Post
"Emerald's selling point is that any guitar of the same model with the same specs is indistinguishable regardless of veneer presence, veneer type, or weave color." While that may be implied from their production techniques, you're the first in my memory to state that as a selling point.

Emerald's selling points IMO are that they build beautiful, amazingly comfortable and infinitely customizable instruments that look good, sound good and offer incredible playability. In addition, they offer the added benefit of being being impervious to changes in temperature and humidity...
You are right. I stand corrected.
I guess I am asking a different question.
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Old 03-18-2022, 12:35 PM
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Whether it is a selling point or not, I don't believe that Emerald guitars of the same model with identical specs are indistinguishable.

These are handmade guitars and when building a guitar no luthier can do exactly the same thing twice.
For instance, Emerald's process involves a lot of sanding. So guitar 1 could have its soundboard sanded just a little thinner than guitar 2, more weight in the neck etc.

A question for those who have two Emeralds with the same specs: Is there any difference in weight?
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Old 03-18-2022, 02:26 PM
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A question for those who have two Emeralds with the same specs: Is there any difference in weight?
Why would somebody own 2 Emeralds with identical specs if they are supposed to be interchangeable?

If Emerald made each instrument unique (like wood guitars), it might result in an individual buying more than one guitar of the same model and specs. That of course would mean that in order to distinguish a better sounding (or different sounding guitar) from the pack, one would have to play them live.

...which would effect the current modus operandi of buying Emeralds without playing them first.

...what if it was made known on this forum that a couple of Emerald owners got together with their supposedly identical guitars and it became obvious that one sounded better than the other. Would we continue to buy unexamined guitars by mail? I know I would want the best sounding guitar I could get... best sounding to me.
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Old 03-18-2022, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrnd View Post
Why would somebody own 2 Emeralds with identical specs if they are supposed to be interchangeable?
Varied tunings for a stage performer...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrnd View Post
If Emerald made each instrument unique (like wood guitars), it might result in an individual buying more than one guitar of the same model and specs. That of course would mean that in order to distinguish a better sounding (or different sounding guitar) from the pack, one would have to play them live.

...which would effect the current modus operandi of buying Emeralds without playing them first.

...what if it was made known on this forum that a couple of Emerald owners got together with their supposedly identical guitars and it became obvious that one sounded better than the other. Would we continue to buy unexamined guitars by mail? I know I would want the best sounding guitar I could get... best sounding to me.
Your final words are important because the way we hear guitars is totally subjective...
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Old 03-19-2022, 09:22 AM
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Varied tunings for a stage performer...



Your final words are important because the way we hear guitars is totally subjective...
The question is whether Emerald guitar with the same specs (or even different specs) are unique or identical. If each one sounds different, trying before buying would be a consideration.

It would be nice if there were Emerald show rooms in North America.

The other implication (If they sound different) is whether the differences are related to specific factory technicians. Maybe I might prefer my guitar to be made by Ryan Ungermunger and not Liam McLusky. Ungermunger starts to get a reputation and we now all want our Emerald guitars to have his stylized "U" burnt into the body.
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Old 03-19-2022, 09:50 AM
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The question is whether Emerald guitar with the same specs (or even different specs) are unique or identical...
And it's an interesting question that deserves its own thread...
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