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  #76  
Old 02-28-2013, 03:05 AM
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...and I am indeed adjusting/tweaking the saddle heights in very small increments, actually playing the guitar, unplugged and plugged in...over a period of a couple days really...making small adjustments here and there. The saddle heights determine string tension...and the degree to which an admittedly inexpensive zinc block sounds "its best."

Getting it "there?" The sound/feel I'm looking for...which for me also included floating the trem and leaving the back cover on.

Wasn't chasing after "vintage Strat tone" with the Bullet in the first place...but a kind of Jerry Garcia kind of Strat...minus the Mutron, Stratoblaster, etc LOL...in short, not super-glassy or super refined but with a kind of middle pup immediacy FIRST...

Better to take an it-is-what-it-is approach...and optimize that...help it be "what it wants to be."

Short version of optimized string tension for me? Basically high action with 6th, 4th and 3rd strings tweaked for better feel, tone...allowing me to get the pups a little higher...

In the end I think the tweaked-slightly higher action matters more to me than using 9s or 10s to get it "there." But I prefer ALL Strats that way...

Last edited by Guest 429; 03-06-2013 at 08:43 AM.
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  #77  
Old 02-28-2013, 03:21 PM
Tone Gopher Tone Gopher is offline
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Thank you.
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  #78  
Old 03-04-2013, 07:08 AM
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Default Dialing in Strat PUPS Vid

http://youtu.be/eqRfODd9v8s

Nice vid not simply for previewing the American Strat (and Tele) but dialing in, tweaking Strat pups...

He goes through each pup position, but relying on bridge, middle and neck positions...good reference for even an inexpensive Squier Bullet.

To get even close to that sound, you cannot go for "richness" or Bluesy gooeyness (esp. with those ceramics) on the bass side of each pup, nor too high on the treble, though the treble ends up higher relative to treble on each pup (at least for me on the Bullet).

Note: he plays on the bridge side (best place to do so for dialing in, tweaking Strat pups IMO). And he DIGS In to test/get that chime...

Have had the best results with Ernie Ball Classic Rock & Roll 10s (pure nickles) OR Ernie Ball Super Slinkys nickle wound 9s...with relatively high action which I PREFER on Strats at every price point (tweaked here and there) and a Jim Dunlop medium celluloid. I love heavy celluloids, but the loss of clarity with the heavy celluoid (with the stock pups) ain't worth it...for me...

I actually did go back and slap on EB Super Slinkys (nickle wound 9s). With the "right," still slightly higher action...the Super Slinkys work, at least for me, on the Bullet very well. They have an overall warmer voice than 10s and "hold together" better tonally...like the the pure nickle 10s.

I also dissassembled the neck to check it out, gave it a little Dr. Duck's Ax Wax...put it back together SNUG. Nicely done really at that price point and a nice neck joint/body fit.

Last edited by Guest 429; 03-06-2013 at 08:42 AM.
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  #79  
Old 03-05-2013, 03:54 AM
bondmorkret bondmorkret is offline
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Interesting thread. Usually when you get above the £1k price range, differences are subtle to the point when only a very atuned ear can really appreciated the differences, but to those people the differences are worlds apart!
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  #80  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:12 PM
Davis Webb Davis Webb is offline
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I think it is essential to have it rewired so that the tone control affects the bridge pickup. That to me, is the single most important way to rescue its shrill overtones. The new Standard Americans have that feature and it really helps things along.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweiss View Post
They did sound different. The Squier was always the louder of the two, but louder doesn't equate to better.

A tiny sample of two guitars through one amp tells me absolutely nothing.
A comment that was overlooked and is important. You do have to play it for a while to find its gems and its flaws. And to know which flaws arent really flaws, but a different sound.
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  #81  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:23 PM
LMNOP LMNOP is offline
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Here's the way to do this test.

$90 guitar, $1000 guitar.

25 different sound clips, A/B, $90/$1K

No specific order. Sometimes, the $1K guitar might be the first clip. Sometimes, it might be the second.

At no point in time mention which guitar is which. Just A/B sound clips, at random, musically varied, no discernible order.

Now, take all the corksniffers in this thread (or across the internet guitar forum world) who are just so keen on blathering the theories about "tonewood" or the magical tonal properties of certain vintages, or the incredibly evocative, almost mystical powers of certain brands- the very same guys who are quick to jump up and talk about how keen their powers of perception are when it's a 50.50 proposition on a video where THE RESULTS ARE GIVEN IN REAL TIME, see how many of these same guys are willing to step up with their wallets open and actually put their money where their mouths are, back up their BS narratives and actually beat mean chance expectation 3 times of 3.

Suddenly, all those "golden eared" mystics who are the first ones in line to talk about the magic power of tonewoods or ivory saddles or how amazing a 63 Strat is compared to a 66 and how everyone who points out the naked emporer is just 'tone deaf', well, that crowd so otherwise noisy when talk is cheap will fall dead silent. You might get a few who are willing to puff their chest and 'accept' the bet, but some tragic event will certainly befall them right around the time the blind test was to take place, precluding their participation.

This is old hat in the guitar world. "Believers" are what they are. Even being a great guitarist doesn't insulate one from falling into this sort of crap.
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  #82  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:39 PM
Fichtezc Fichtezc is offline
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Set it up and I'll do it. I'd like to prove my ears wrong... But I've owned three squires and an American and the American HANDS DOWN WITHOUT A DOUBT is a finer guitar than the others. I even swapped pickups and the American still plays like butter and sounds clearer so i prefer it for that reason. Once again, that's not to say the squires were bad by ANY means. They were fine guitars just as the seagull S6 is a fine guitar. But would I trade my Taylor for it? No way.

I still doubt I would fail the test you mentioned, though maybe I would.... but I would never fail playability test.
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  #83  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:53 PM
LMNOP LMNOP is offline
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Cool.
How much?

I have an account at Escrow.com, so we can go that way to make sure there aren't any shenanigans.
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  #84  
Old 03-05-2013, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis Webb View Post
You do have to play it for a while to find its gems and its flaws. And to know which flaws arent really flaws, but a different sound.
I like the Bullet stock...with that in mind.

Hands down one of the most irritating comparison vids out there...submitted not as a "proof" of anything except for comic relief?

Bullet vs.
Classic Vibe 50s

http://youtu.be/IrAUxwdSluk

Last edited by Guest 429; 03-05-2013 at 02:10 PM.
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  #85  
Old 03-05-2013, 01:23 PM
Davis Webb Davis Webb is offline
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Heres the Squier Bullet with upgraded vintage coil strat pickups and a 500 Kohm pot, through a half decent signal chain. Neck pickup. Total cost less than $300.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBPsrPge4EY
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  #86  
Old 03-05-2013, 01:31 PM
Fichtezc Fichtezc is offline
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Heck, I'm at my parents house and I have an old squire laying around I could do a session with about 20 clips, all with a simple, silverface fender and a couple of mics.
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  #87  
Old 03-05-2013, 01:32 PM
MBE MBE is offline
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Not as dramatic a price difference as the bullet, but would be interesting to do a similar test with a Squier Classic Vibe strat. I own or have owned American, Japanese, and Mexican Fenders, and I've been just blown away by the Classic Vibes. The pickups are as good as any stock pickups on any Fender I've bought, and the fretwork and playability beat all of the Mexican, and even some of the Japanese and American Fenders I've played.

I saw a sale where they went new for $250 or so. That is the most insane value I have ever seen in any electric guitar, ever.
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  #88  
Old 03-05-2013, 04:51 PM
Fichtezc Fichtezc is offline
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If anyone is interested, here's a bunch of clips of my two strats. A Squier Stratocaster standard with unknown body wood and a rosewood fingerboard fitted with ceramic GFS pups. The action is SUPER high because that seems to get the best sound out of it. The other is my 2011 American Standard Stratocaster with 57/62 pickups, an alder body and the same rosewood fingerboard. The action really needs to be raised, I just haven't gotten around to it.

I recorded them through a Silverface Fender champ with an SM57 on the speaker and an Oktava MK-012 on the back of the cab. The EQ was set on 5 for both treble and bass as was the volume. For the distorted part I dimed the amp.

http://www.zachfichterstudios.com/me...quier%20II.mp3

Also, they aren't in any particular order. I started with one guitar, maybe held onto it, maybe didn't. Each clip is a different pickup setting and a different riff, however.

So. Which is the American?
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  #89  
Old 03-05-2013, 07:24 PM
Davis Webb Davis Webb is offline
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Thanks Fizz. Gonna take me a while, how many clips in total? Just trying to set up a list.
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  #90  
Old 03-08-2013, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis Webb View Post
Heres the Squier Bullet with upgraded vintage coil strat pickups and a 500 Kohm pot, through a half decent signal chain. Neck pickup. Total cost less than $300.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBPsrPge4EY
Have come to conclude that basswood Strats even if you swapped out the trem block yada yada and swap in vintage pups...like alnico Vs? are never really quite there the way an alder or ash Strat would be..because of the warm mids basswood supplies...which is why either:

1. You stay pretty much stock with the Bullet and optimzie its "flaws" for a kind of steely, spanky funky Jerry Garcia kind of 70s sound (or go with distotrion towards Billy Corgan territory?) OR...

2. You go for Mods that work with the basswood...like alnico IIIs, somekind of DiMarzio thing, or...ceramics of some kind, better ceramics like Keystones or something...

In general, I think basswood will NEVER give you "vintage tone" really..maybe best shot? Alnico IIIs...

For me, not seeking "vintage tone" more towards Jerry Garcia, Jeff Beckish...YJMish...Steve Vaish...

Don't get me wrong I think the high-level of not-badness is there, esp. the neck pup stock for comparisons...but better to take it all the way to where it wants to be IMO...

With that said I ended up using Ernie Ball 8s Extra Slinkys for my own "best results" on the Bullet Strat...played with a 1 mm Dunlop nylon.

Last edited by Guest 429; 03-29-2013 at 03:04 PM.
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