Acoustic Archtop Tailpiece Query

[dogboy]

Hello,
Have owned a few low end archtops over the years, and have never even heard of (or thus considered) the change I recently read about in an ebay listing for a "loar" LH-400 roundhole archtop. The git pictured had a non-stock tailpiece with a shorter length than the stock item. The listing suggested that the shorter tailpiece made for less string tension and therefore easier string bending.

If anyone has any experience with this element of archtop set-up, I would appreciate hearing about it. Thank you. Fare well, db

[vintageparlors]

db
I can't attest to the influence of a shorter tailpiece on tension/string bending but I've used a shorter length tailpiece on vintage parlors where the combination of a smaller body, breakangle of the strings over the bridge and a full-length tailpiece would produce virtually no pressure on the soundboard, as the tailpiece and the bridge were almost touching. A shorter tailpiece allowed for a better breakangle from the bridge to the tailpiece resulting in better sound resonance through the top.

I'd be curious to find out if lower tension/string bending was an outcome as well.

[devellis]

It has been mentioned here before that the length of the string beyond the area that vibrates (i.e., past the nut and bridge) influences the stiffness of the string. I have no idea whether this is true or not but I suspect that's the reasoning behind the claim: Shorter tailpiece = more free string length behind the bridge = more flexible feel. Again, no idea whether it's true or not.

[dogboy]

Hello,
Thank you for the feedback. Guess I will just have to suck it up and go buy another archtop so I can try a shorter tailpiece and see what happens.
Woe is me. Fare well, db

[mr. beaumont]

The effect is pretty minimal, bounding on not noticable, IMHO.

I had an epiphone with the "frequensator" tailpiece, which uses a very short arm for the bass strings and a long arm for the trebles--that right there goes against the theory--but after switching the arms to accomodate a brand of strings that was actually not long enough to reach the tuning peg for the fourth string, I noticed no differences in playability.

What you will notice, though is increased overtones from the strings behind the bridge with a shorter tailpiece. This will either be really cool or suck depending on how your ears take to them!

[oldane]

The length of the tailpiece (the length af the string behind the bridge, that is) has no effect whatsoever on the the TENSION of the string. For a given string of a given gauge, there is one and only one tension which makes the string play at a given pitch. If the tension was higher, it would play at a higher pitch and vice versa for a lower tension. We are dealing with the laws of physics here, and they can't be manipulated.

As has been said, the Epiphone Frequensator tailpiece was originally intended to do tricks to the tension of the strings, but Epiphone eventually realized it didn't work, and only kept is, because it had become so well known that everyone could see it was an Epiphone guitar, when thy saw it.

If I had to do a lot of bending, I would certainly prefer a short length of string behind the bridge - ideally a stop tailpiece or a Fender had tail type tailpiece - because anything else will affect the tuning stability of the guitar.

As with bending as with other aspects of playing, I find it OK to go for easy playing - but never at the cost of tuning stability, optimal tone quality etc. Most thing that seems hard becomes easier with practice. Thicker string guages and higher action for example don't make life easier, but there's a reward in the improved tone quality an dynamic range. Many don't even know as they have never tried, because they have only been preoccupied with what makes it easiest to play the instrument. Check out Stevie Ray Vaughan. He used very heavy strings and a very high action - and we all know how full his sound was.

As another poster has said, on archtops, the length of string behind the bridge will vibrate when the string vibrates. As such, the length of string behind the bridge will affect these symphathetic vibrations. Sometimes these vibrations are annoying, and on one of my archtops, I have dampened them by sandwiching them in a strip of velcro band. Such symphathetic vibrations also occurs with the length of strings between the nut and the tuning gears as well as with the length of string between the nut and the fretting point (provided the neck has a little relief). I have another archtop on which I have done the velcro trick at the peghead. Years ago there was a device called the "George van Eps String Dampener", which consisted of a plate mounted in place of the truss rod cover and a short arm with a foam padded bar which could be swung out and placed on the strings at the first fret (open strings are almost never used in jazz guitar playing). The device was popular among jazz guitarists in the 1950s, and can be seen on photos from that time of guitarists such as Jim Hall and Herb Ellis.