How much did installing a LR Baggs Anthem change your acoustic tone. - Page 2

duaneallen · #16 08-03-2020, 05:54 PM

It depends on how the pickup is installed. I LOVE the plugged in sound of the Anthem so I put one in my HD28. When I got it back I did notice a small decrease in volume and resonance. It did bother me a little, but when I plugged it in I was extremely happy. I told my tech about this and he said that the install could be part of the problem. He checked it out and reinstalled it his way. The acoustic sound improved quite a bit. Now its almost not noticeable, and the plugged in sound is still great. I don't know exactly what he did differently though. He mentioned something about the cables not being attached to the soundboard, but routing them differently. Maybe something to look into.

gluve95 · #17 08-03-2020, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duaneallen

It depends on how the pickup is installed. I LOVE the plugged in sound of the Anthem so I put one in my HD28. When I got it back I did notice a small decrease in volume and resonance. It did bother me a little, but when I plugged it in I was extremely happy. I told my tech about this and he said that the install could be part of the problem. He checked it out and reinstalled it his way. The acoustic sound improved quite a bit. Now its almost not noticeable, and the plugged in sound is still great. I don't know exactly what he did differently though. He mentioned something about the cables not being attached to the soundboard, but routing them differently. Maybe something to look into.

Do you have contact info for your tec you can,share. I doubt he is near me but maybe he will share his secret with me.

89bruin · #18 08-03-2020, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gluve95

The simple non invasive install of the Lyric would be nice. But none of the videos I've seen sound as full as the Anthem. But I have heard people say with the right floor preamp and EQ'ing it can sound good. What kind of chain are you using with the Lyric. I thought with the Anthem or Lyric going with the Align series pedals might be the way to go. EQ - Session - Reverb - Active DI. Maybe all that could make the Lyric sing.

I’m almost exclusively a solo fingerstyle guy and only play small venues. My signal chain is lyric -> LR Baggs Session -> LR Baggs Venue -> Fishman Loudbox Mini. Sometimes I just run the Venue and I’ve also had decent results with the Zoom A3 and my Fender Acoustasonic 90. I find the Lyric sounds best for me with a small cut at around 200 and a moderate cut at 750 to 800. I chose this route because I could do my own install with no alterations to the Larrivees. That said, the Anthem in my Martin 000 sounds great too.

MrDB · #19 08-03-2020, 06:57 PM

I had the Anthem installed in my Eastman, which is a 00 body size. I can't tell any significant difference in acoustic tone. Maybe in a larger body size things might be different.

Petty1818 · #20 08-03-2020, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duaneallen

It depends on how the pickup is installed. I LOVE the plugged in sound of the Anthem so I put one in my HD28. When I got it back I did notice a small decrease in volume and resonance. It did bother me a little, but when I plugged it in I was extremely happy. I told my tech about this and he said that the install could be part of the problem. He checked it out and reinstalled it his way. The acoustic sound improved quite a bit. Now its almost not noticeable, and the plugged in sound is still great. I don't know exactly what he did differently though. He mentioned something about the cables not being attached to the soundboard, but routing them differently. Maybe something to look into.

Not really sure much can be done other than trying a different saddle material in hopes of changing the sound a bit. I am really not sure what he would have done to make that much of a change.

jseth · #21 08-03-2020, 07:28 PM

my word of advice to you, if you love the sound of your guitar... DO NOT INSTALL AN ANTHEM!

I put the Anthem SL pickups in both my Mark Angus 6 and 12 string hand-builds... owned the 6 string for 32 years before installing that pickup. Had a number of other UST's in the guitar as that's what I do, I play and sing for folks in bars, restaurants, etc... and "plugging in" is simply the way it's done.

I had that pickup in both guitars for nearly a decade; loved the "plug in and play" aspect of them and I had a Goodall Grand Concert to play at home, unplugged... but, MAN! The first thoughts I had when I played my old faithful Angus was, "WHAT DID THEY DO TO MY GUITAR?!!!".

Volume was down by about 20%, but the most disturbing affect was in the tone... kind of squashed everything together and evened it all out... which, on this guitar, was NOT a good thing! Used to have such a sweet, fat upper midrange - even on the high E string at the octave, the note was still fat and round; no mean feat for a maple backed/spruce topped guitar.

Obviously, I liked the plugged in sound a lot or I wouldn't have kept that pickup in the guitars...

About a month ago, I decided to pare down my guitars to only three; one 6 string, one 12 string and one electric. I'm going to sell the old Angus (now 41 years old!) to a younger frined, and he doesn't want that Anthem in there, so I had it pulled it out...

HOLY SMOKES!!! My old friend was back! Both in volume and tone, back to normal... can't tell you how good it feels, both to have the guitar sounding "right" again and to know that my ears are just fine... I didn't imagine the difference the Anthem made to the natural sound...

I can't believe that anyone doesn't hear a difference. My first thought is, "they should have their hearing checked...", but perhaps they're listening to something other than what I hear in an acoustic guitar... whatever, I can not, in all conscience, recommend the Anthem pickups to anyone who cares about the unplugged sound of their guitars. If it's for a "stage" guitar, sure... but definitely not your "one and only"...

On a positive note, I recently bought a 2012 Goodall Concert Jumbo to have as my "only 6 string", and I had a set of Dazzo 60's installed in it. They sound MAGNIFICENT, just running into my Bose T1 mixer and my Bose L1 Model II... no preamp (other than what's in the Bose T1), VERY natural sound - when I had them installed, I set up my Bose rig and the T1 (set to Flat, no eq at all), and we used that to position the Dazzo transducers... I'm so stoked about the sound that I'm pulling the Anthem out of my 12 string tomorrow and having a set of Dazzo's installed later this week!

For what it's worth, when I first had that Anthem put in my Angus 6 string, I took it down to James Goodall's shop so he could hear it... his response was "WHAT did they do to your guitar!" He'd heard the same guitar played when I came to his shop to 'audition" a bunch of his guitars. At that time, James was installing the Anthem pickups as a matter of course for anyone who wanted a pickup in their Goodall.

After hearing what it did to the sound of my Angus, he stopped using them immediately, and got on the phone to Lloyd Baggs and yelled at him! He was mortified that his instruments would be affected by a pickup installation so dramatically...

I can scarcely believe that MacPherson would put these in their guitars, nor can I believe that Breedlove does, either... I'm pretty sure that the culprit is the soft, braided covering on the UST portion of the pickup, the Element. Yes, the tone and volume "came back" somewhat on my guitar, but as a faint shadow of what it had been...

gluve95 · #22 08-04-2020, 02:45 PM

So I pulled the trigger on the Schatten HFN. Just couldn't bring myself to do the under saddle thing. Easy install, good reviews and non invasive. It was a Doug Young Audio sample that made me go Shatten over the Lyric. I listen to both on his comparison page. The Schatten had better highs. Not more just more detailed. I went with the passive. So the next big debate will be what floor preamp to use. So expect question on that. Thanks to everyone for all of the input on all my threads on this subject

stevecuss · #23 08-04-2020, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gluve95

So I pulled the trigger on the Schatten HFN. Just couldn't bring myself to do the under saddle thing. Easy install, good reviews and non invasive. It was a Doug Young Audio sample that made me go Shatten over the Lyric. I listen to both on his comparison page. The Schatten had better highs. Not more just more detailed. I went with the passive. So the next big debate will be what floor preamp to use. So expect question on that. Thanks to everyone for all of the input on all my threads on this subject

A great choice - it is currently my top choice for pickups.

I play through an Ultra Sound Pre/DI - they're not made anymore, but they show up used from time to time on Reverb. Its excellent, but also, there are many excellent options.

AeroUSA · #24 08-04-2020, 06:49 PM

I feel another comparison video coming lol but seriously it is one of the greatest pickups on the market and that is where the dilemma is. Do you want to lose 10% of your unplugged tone or gain 50% of hassle in the live sound.

Petty1818 · #25 08-04-2020, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

I feel another comparison video coming lol but seriously it is one of the greatest pickups on the market and that is where the dilemma is. Do you want to lose 10% of your unplugged tone or gain 50% of hassle in the live sound.

Luckily I just don’t like the Anthem so the choice is easy! Honestly though, with the Tonedexter out, there really is no need to go the Anthem route if you are worried about it impacting the unplugged tone. I think the Soundscape will also make it possible for those who want a plug and play option to install a k&k or even fishman matrix, which does not impact the unplugged tone as much.

jseth · #26 08-05-2020, 12:06 PM

Wanted to report on the removal of the Anthem SL from my 1983 Mark Angus 12 string guitar... It's built a lot heavier than my companion 6 string, even though the bodies are the same size.

When I had the Anthem's installed, I immediately noticed a huge difference in the unplugged sound of my 6 string (which has been well documented in this thread and on this site!), but I really didn't notice a demonstrable impact on the 12 string. I was guessing that was due to the fact that the 12 string is so much more heavily built than the 6 string...

Had the Anthem taken out yesterday, in preparation for having Dazzos installed in it later this week... I played the guitar a bunch in the days before the Anthem was removed, and I was thrilled to hear the difference in that guitar with the removal of that pickup system! Much louder and crisper, feels and sounds wonderful! Having had the guitar since it was built, it was a breath of fresh air to hear it so lively and responsive...

I can't recommend the Dazzos more highly... once they're installed and positioned correctly for your guitar and your sound system, they not only sound terrific, but they do it without any fiddling around. I thought that perhaps I'd need an external microphone along with the Dazzo's, similar to what I'd do with the K&K I had in my Goodall... but the Dazzo's have a wonderful "airy" quality to the sound that negates the need for an additional microphone, in my opinion. Don't know how they do with higher volume levels, but I suspect they'll work well with my Bose L1 system when it's cranked up a bit!

Really getting excited about playing out again; I sure hope it's sooner rather than later!!! Come on, scientists... get a handle on this Covid stuff!!!

leew3 · #27 08-05-2020, 02:08 PM

IF the Anthem SL counts in this question, I'd say no noticeable change in acoustic tone. I have this pickup in my Larrivee L03 and continue to love the acoustic tone and perhaps love the amplified tone even more. It remains my easiest to amplify guitar (I have three Taylors and a Martin with pickups in them) and the one that needs the least 'tweaking' to sound really good plugged in.

AeroUSA · #28 08-05-2020, 04:22 PM

I just dropped my Rainsong off for a set up and asked my tech to make me a saddle so that I can do another with and without comparison. If he agrees to do it I’ll make a video on my channel. Just for fun of course!

BluesKing777 · #29 08-06-2020, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Luckily I just don’t like the Anthem so the choice is easy! Honestly though, with the Tonedexter out, there really is no need to go the Anthem route if you are worried about it impacting the unplugged tone. I think the Soundscape will also make it possible for those who want a plug and play option to install a k&k or even fishman matrix, which does not impact the unplugged tone as much.

I found having the Anthem (full) and a Tonedexter gives a lot of options after I bought a 2005 Dove that already had it installed - as mentioned, I can have Anthem with TruMic on or I can run the Tonedexter with the TruMic OFF.

I had so much fun that I bought another full Anthem for my 2002 J50 with the same plan. We are still in lockdown here and have also a 8pm curfew, so no live tryout, unfortunately, but I think if there was feedback live with the TruMic, switch to the Tonedexter file!

And Murphy’s Law says that the best stock pickup system on the planet, Maton AP5-Pro dual source undersaddle and mic, not enough to have all that..ha ha ha....turned the Maton mic off and made a Tonedexter file and the result is sensational! The swept mids on the AP5-Pro controls help get rid of the nasty oink. People have said the Maton system is based on the Tak system PLUS a mic, so I imagine a Tak PLUS Tonedexter could also be a mighty weapon!

BluesKing777.

James May · #30 08-06-2020, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

...People have said the Maton system is based on the Tak system PLUS a mic, so I imagine a Tak PLUS Tonedexter could also be a mighty weapon!

BluesKing777.

Our friend John Jorgenson was using a Tak w/ ToneDexter last summer on the Elton John tour. He was very pleased with it.

During development, we tested several Takamines with Dexter. It worked great with and without the cooltube feature engaged. It worked best if trained with cooltube off, then use it or not during playback to taste.