You Can Now Install The Cole Clark Pickup in ANY Guitar

[martingitdave]

I mentioned previously that i think this opens up other guitar builders to move away from packaged Baggs and Fishman systems if they want to compete in the acoustic performance guitar market.

The builder can focus on other possible innovations or acoustic tone, aesthetics, etc. Probably not a mass market appeal, but might keep some folks busy.

It’s for the “I’d love to use a Cole Clark or Maton guitar except for this or that feature I don’t favor.” The Gruhn Versitar comes to mind. However there would need to be a steep OEM discount to make that work.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by Marshall

I don't think they are offering the UST only to protect their proprietary sound. Drilling out the bridge and bridgeplate to fit the individual elements is a BIG task requiring precision tools. That's beyond the capability of the typical aftermarket. This system gives you 90% (just a guess) of the factory system and is in the realm of more doable guitar work.

That makes sense. I will agree with your point about easing installation.

I will (in a friendly way) take an opposing viewpoint and estimate that its's only 50% as good as a "real" Cole Clark pickup. Since it uses their preamp but not their "real" pickup. Its just a standard, run-of-the-mill UST

(IMO all USTs are horrible so they will probably disappoint a lot of people and tarnish their reputation. Remember when Cadillac launched the Cimarron? It was a Chevy Cavalier advertised with a Cadillac name and became a laughing stock.

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I just don’t think it’s a big market at all.

it's not.........................

[Marshall]

Not to go off course, but I'm going to try a Goacoustic pickup. (See another thread). It's a full replacement saddle that has individual string responses built in without all the drilling and cutting that is involved in the Cole Clark model.

We shall see what we shall see.

[Larrison]

I have never heard a CC in person, so ignore if you want- but seeing how much crap it takes to make that system work and the two separate cutouts makes me wonder if the pickup is a big reason I hear folks say that the acoustic tone of CC is not that impressive.

This seems like big news for guitar makers who would switch to a (maybe watered down?) CC system, but hard to imagine there's much aftermarket appetite for all the slicing and dicing.

[Chriscom]

Originally Posted by fazool

I will (in a friendly way) take an opposing viewpoint and estimate that its's only 50% as good as a "real" Cole Clark pickup. Since it uses their preamp but not their "real" pickup. Its just a standard, run-of-the-mill UST

(IMO all USTs are horrible so they will probably disappoint a lot of people and tarnish their reputation.)

Sounds grim! But the system doesn't rely only on the UST. And while there are limitations evaluating sound online even with headphones, it sure doesn't sound run-of-the-mill to me and I am dealing with four Sonitones in my life.

(And yeah I'm familiar with the Cimmaron--I had a Chevy Cavalier at the time!)

[Cuki79]

Hi everyone,

Look closely at how the Cole Clark facesensor is fixed to the top aligned with the bracing on the picture below.



Now look at the facesensor base plate shown below:


How do you think can anyone install the facesensor on a traditionnal guitar similarly without cutting a bracing in half?

On the video provided it really looks like the guy just glued it somewhere on the top.

Here is a quote I found on the AGF about the original facesensor

The Face Brace Sensor is no exception. Simple in its concept and design, the Face Brace Sensor is the first pickup that captures vital sounds and tones created by the face of the guitar. The sensor runs across a large section of the face resulting in a truly live signal that has to be heard to be believed.

The manner in which the preamp/ pickup crosses over is Patented.
The Face Brace Sensor is 'Patent Pending'.
Cole Clark's method of acoustic guitar construction is Patented.

[Cuki79]

From the Cole Clark Facesensor patent

[0032] The sensor according to the present invention
enables the transducer 3 to generate an electrical output signal
more closely representing the vibrations in the soundboard 1.
In addition, the brace members 5 enable a greater surface area
of the soundboard 1 to be sampled by the sensor in compari
son to a transducer mounted directly on the Soundboard 1.

From what I understand, and given that Cole Clark also patented their version of the palathetic UST, I would be suprised if a PG3 installed in a traditionnal X braced guitar + a piezo strip UST gives the exact same plugged in tone and dynamic than when it is installed in a guitar with a bracing designed to optimized its performance.

If you think about acoustic IR, most of the guitar response lies in the first few ms... 1 ms is 34 cm of air propagation.

Basically an IR sums the contribution of all the top radiation to rebuild the microphone recording.

Here is a picture from Springer Handbook of acoustics (below) where one could see the vibration pattern of the top at 2 frequencies (a) and (c) and the radiation pattern (b) and (d). Some regions of the top will push air some will pump. That gives a complex radiation pattern that varies with frequencies... Each contribution must be summed at the microphone which is typically 20 cm away from the 12th fret.

The sum of all those contributions during the top resonances lifetime makes an IR file.


The original face sensor would sums a lots of these contributions thanks to its coupling to the two big braces 5 resulting in a less quacky signal... and almost no feedback since

• the face sensor only works above 350Hz.
• the bracing are thick, rigid and wide enough to be less sensitive to the main low frequency mode.

my 2 cents,
Cuki

PS: If the Baton Rouge guitars have the Face sensor on the top far from a brace and a standard piezo UST give the same plugged in performance than a Cole Clark: I would be the first to laugh and put my Cole Clark patent folder to the bin.

[albirw]

Hi I know I’m late in the thread.

Has anyone tried this alternative designed by Bradley Clark who left CC?

https://www.kepmausa.com/brad-clark-supernatural

[Marshall]

My, that looks interesting.

Aaron has reviewed it already

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=671819

[conecaster]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

The entire installation process video, HERE.

Watched the whole installation.

Why would an under saddle with mike be anything particularly unique. It has a one saddle signal, all strings summed, blended with an internal mike.

Not getting into its tonality?

We make application specific replacement systems that fit common installations by OEM suppliers.

I feel there needs to be aftermarket alternatives to over come these kinds of installations.

For years I installed RMC systems in my guitars. All these years later I have the ability to make retro fits through our company. I can upgrade the system.

Not many will be able to have the kind of advantage I have access too.

[martingitdave]

Paul, I agree. The palathetic style pickup has its advantages. But I am not sure the squeeze is worth the juice. There is a lot of modification to the saddle slot required from what I can see.

[Marshall]

The Bradley Clark Supernatural seems to have small holes drilled through the saddle slot for the elements. That's much different looking than a Takamine Palathetic pickup. But beyond the pictures, it's hard to see what else is involved in getting it in. The videos all talk about it being factory installed by the guitar makers. So, it's not a simple thing by any stretch.

I do like their battery removal scheme, though.

[JackB1]

I can't see anyone tackling this themselves.