LR Baggs M1 fitting and Black Angel

[mt8]

Currently considering these 2 pickups, my guitar’s sound hole measures in at 93.5mm or 3.68 inches, will both the pickups fit? And also, is a preamp necessary for passive pickups? Or is guitar > passive DI box > PA system sufficient?

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by mt8

...And also, is a preamp necessary for passive pickups? Or is guitar > passive DI box > PA system sufficient?

An active DI is a better bet for a consistent response. In a parallel discussion I'm recommending a Boss GE-7 eq pedal which is pretty ubiquitous among electro-folkies. You may like to consider one of these in front of any DI.

There is a Behringer preamp (I think it's the AD21) which incorporates some good basic EQ and a balanced output. I've got one knocking around somewhere and can confirm that it's not bad at all but I haven't used it for some time.

[pieterh]

The general rule of thumb is passive pickup - active DI; active pickup - passive DI.

One reason for this is signal strength: if you are planning on ever running the through-signal from the DI to an onstage monitor then at least one part of the signal chain up to and including the DI should be buffered (ie amplified). If both are passive then you’ll get a decent signal at the mixer or PA but risk getting nothing to the amp/monitor.

Also it is about signal strength and integrity going to the mixer/PA. A passive pickup and DI will give a decent balanced signal but an active DI will give it just that little bit more to play with. Active DIs such as Radial j48 have such a wide frequency and dynamic range that when we first starting using them people were amazed and thought the DIs were making the instruments sound better. In truth, what they were doing is letting more of the instrument’s signal through - and in so doing making us realise that not all DIs are created equal and that often you do get what you pay for (an opinion not shared by all here on AGF, but I’m a sound tech at a professional theatre and know what our experience has taught us!).

[mt8]

Thanks for the replies, just might go for DiMarzio Black Angel + Samson MDA1. Does anyone of you have an experience with the MDA1? The reviews seem pretty good, plus I currently do not need any fancy features, just something to get me to the PA.

[pieterh]

Originally Posted by mt8

Thanks for the replies, just might go for DiMarzio Black Angel + Samson MDA1. Does anyone of you have an experience with the MDA1? The reviews seem pretty good, plus I currently do not need any fancy features, just something to get me to the PA.

I’ve not tried this model but it might be fine. It’s a good sign that they are emulating Radial in the robust design of the outer casing but it’s the electronics that really count. It’s a fairly cheap model so it’s a good start to get you connected. I would recommend using it with phantom power and not batteries where possible.

In the long run you might want to try a higher end DI for comparison - there may be no difference or it might make a big difference. It’s worth also trying out a preamp with a direct function to give you a degree of tone shaping and control. I never play out without my Tonebone Pz-pre.

It’s your decision in the end!

[mt8]

Originally Posted by pieterh

I’ve not tried this model but it might be fine. It’s a good sign that they are emulating Radial in the robust design of the outer casing but it’s the electronics that really count. It’s a fairly cheap model so it’s a good start to get you connected. I would recommend using it with phantom power and not batteries where possible.

In the long run you might want to try a higher end DI for comparison - there may be no difference or it might make a big difference. It’s worth also trying out a preamp with a direct function to give you a degree of tone shaping and control. I never play out without my Tonebone Pz-pre.

It’s your decision in the end!

Don’t mind me, extremely new to preamps and DIs. What do you mean by direct function? As in an a preamp that has a ‘DI’ function? Still unclear on preamp vs an active DI.

[varmonter]

I use a grace felix. I think that this type of preamp
Is what is meant by "direct function". In that it has
knobs for controlling bands of EQ and tone shaping capabilities. Not just impedance
matching like a straight up DI box. It's 2 ch
preamp and more than you want to spend.
I might suggest the orchid muting di. Its
Made in the UK and is a high end active
Di.it has a button to mute the signal.
Nothing more annoying to an audience
Than listening to an artist tune all the time.
Just nice to have that mute function at your feet.
Heres a link.
http://orchid-electronics.co.uk/Muting_DI_Box.htm
I own one of these and it's been dependable
And works as designed. Only takes about
A week to get here from the UK. But I think
Maureys music sells them here in the states.
9v batt. Pedalboard power or 48v phantom power.i use phantom.

[pieterh]

Originally Posted by mt8

Don’t mind me, extremely new to preamps and DIs. What do you mean by direct function? As in an a preamp that has a ‘DI’ function? Still unclear on preamp vs an active DI.

A preamp is a device for adding signal amplification and usually tone shaping (eq, low cut filters etc) and maybe the option of a gain boost (for solos etc).

A DI is a device that balances an instrument line level signal and optimises impedance for connection over long cable runs for connection to a mixer or other balanced (mic) input. An active DI needs phantom power or battery for the circuitry to work but means the unit can buffer (amplify) the signal somewhat. A passive DI does not amplify the signal.

A lot of the time people will talk about buying a DI when what they mean is a preamp which includes a built in DI output, ie a microphone/xlr contact that had a balanced signal. Some models have two xlr outputs, one post eq which retains the eq and filtering of the preamp, and one pre-eq which more or else gives the mixer a signal as if the unit was a pure DI. Some engineers prefer this as they can then shape the tone according to the overall mix and the room. When I’m playing and doing our own sound I’ll usually use post-eq as a start setup and then modify a bit in the mix if needed.

I guess I’m being pedantic but a preamp doesn’t automatically include a DI (sometimes called “direct out”) though very many of them do!

[mt8]

Originally Posted by pieterh

A preamp is a device for adding signal amplification and usually tone shaping (eq, low cut filters etc) and maybe the option of a gain boost (for solos etc).

A DI is a device that balances an instrument line level signal and optimises impedance for connection over long cable runs for connection to a mixer or other balanced (mic) input. An active DI needs phantom power or battery for the circuitry to work but means the unit can buffer (amplify) the signal somewhat. A passive DI does not amplify the signal.

A lot of the time people will talk about buying a DI when what they mean is a preamp which includes a built in DI output, ie a microphone/xlr contact that had a balanced signal. Some models have two xlr outputs, one post eq which retains the eq and filtering of the preamp, and one pre-eq which more or else gives the mixer a signal as if the unit was a pure DI. Some engineers prefer this as they can then shape the tone according to the overall mix and the room. When I’m playing and doing our own sound I’ll usually use post-eq as a start setup and then modify a bit in the mix if needed.

I guess I’m being pedantic but a preamp doesn’t automatically include a DI (sometimes called “direct out”) though very many of them do!

Gotcha! Appreciate the explanation. For clarification, if I run it through a pre-amp without a DI, I still have to go through an active DI. And in that case, all I get is gain and eq controls as compared to straight into active DI. Is that correct?

[pieterh]

Originally Posted by mt8

Gotcha! Appreciate the explanation. For clarification, if I run it through a pre-amp without a DI, I still have to go through an active DI. And in that case, all I get is gain and eq controls as compared to straight into active DI. Is that correct?

I wouldn’t quite put it like that, “all you get” but yeah something like that.

In all likelihood a preamp will also have a direct output, most of them do.

If you run the guitar with passive pickup through a preamp without a direct out then a passive DI will be fine - the preamp has already done the buffering etc!

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by pieterh

The general rule of thumb is passive pickup - active DI; active pickup - passive DI.

One reason for this is signal strength: if you are planning on ever running the through-signal from the DI to an onstage monitor then at least one part of the signal chain up to and including the DI should be buffered (ie amplified). If both are passive then you’ll get a decent signal at the mixer or PA but risk getting nothing to the amp/monitor.

Also it is about signal strength and integrity going to the mixer/PA. A passive pickup and DI will give a decent balanced signal but an active DI will give it just that little bit more to play with.

Well, you have endorsed a level of pedantry so:

passive pickup - active DI; active pickup - whatever you like.

It's not just a matter of signal level though, the tone of the instrument will be significantly degraded by an impedance mismatch. Typically there will be no bass content in a passive/passive system which is increased as the cables get longer.

A well buffered (active preamp or DI) signal from a passive piezo can be sent pretty much to the next town with little harm.

[/pedantry]

Otherwise 100%

+1 for Orchid boxes, I have 3

[pieterh]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

Well, you have endorsed a level of pedantry so:

passive pickup - active DI; active pickup - whatever you like.

It's not just a matter of signal level though, the tone of the instrument will be significantly degraded by an impedance mismatch. Typically there will be no bass content in a passive/passive system which is increased as the cables get longer.

A well buffered (active preamp or DI) signal from a passive piezo can be sent pretty much to the next town with little harm.

[/pedantry]

Otherwise 100%

+1 for Orchid boxes, I have 3

Excellent extra pedantry[emoji4] Agree 100%, plus you put it better than I did

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by pieterh

Excellent extra pedantry[emoji4] Agree 100%

Great minds...

[mt8]

Thought about it for awhile, think I just might settle for an active pickup as I do not want the hassle/have the need for preamps and active DIs at the moment.

Top of my list at the moment is the M1 active and Fishman Rare earth hum bucker, though I have read a few threads on here complaining on the lack of pole adjustability with the fishman. Is the M80 worth the price jump as compared to the 2 above?

[jricc]

Originally Posted by mt8

Thought about it for awhile, think I just might settle for an active pickup as I do not want the hassle/have the need for preamps and active DIs at the moment.

Top of my list at the moment is the M1 active and Fishman Rare earth hum bucker, though I have read a few threads on here complaining on the lack of pole adjustability with the fishman. Is the M80 worth the price jump as compared to the 2 above?

i can't comment on the M80 upgrade as I've never had one, but I really like the M1 active, much more than the Fishman Rare Earth. I've used them both and I personally like the Baggs tone more and the polepieces (for me) are a must.
Hope this helps.
jricc