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  #1  
Old 09-23-2020, 08:51 PM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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Default NUX Optima Air Review/Demo - I’m Surprised!

Knocked this review out today. I wasn’t expecting much but I was super impressed with the results that I got!

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  #2  
Old 09-23-2020, 09:05 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Sounds quite nice! One question, do you notice any background hiss? I have watched a few demos and some really have some noticeable hiss when the IR is engaged. It could just be the stock IR’s but just something I was wondering about.
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:10 PM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
Sounds quite nice! One question, do you notice any background hiss? I have watched a few demos and some really have some noticeable hiss when the IR is engaged. It could just be the stock IR’s but just something I was wondering about.
I saw those reviews too. After I created the IR there was hiss until I disconnected the mic and there was hiss another time because I had not optimized the gain going into my interface. Once I set that correctly it was not an issue. Note: I just listened back and when I’m demoing the desktop editor there is no hiss at all and I am not muting the guitar, it’s on the whole time.
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Old 09-24-2020, 07:37 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by AeroUSA View Post
I saw those reviews too. After I created the IR there was hiss until I disconnected the mic and there was hiss another time because I had not optimized the gain going into my interface. Once I set that correctly it was not an issue. Note: I just listened back and when I’m demoing the desktop editor there is no hiss at all and I am not muting the guitar, it’s on the whole time.
Oh that's good. I hate hiss! It's another cool option though at a terrific price. In my band, I play mandolin, guitar, banjo, bouzouki etc so although the Tonedexter is amazing and has different wavemap slots, I am excited to add another IR pedal to my board to make things a bit easier. I might try this or wait for the Voiceprint. It's crazy how many options we will have soon.
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Old 09-24-2020, 08:25 AM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
Oh that's good. I hate hiss! It's another cool option though at a terrific price. In my band, I play mandolin, guitar, banjo, bouzouki etc so although the Tonedexter is amazing and has different wavemap slots, I am excited to add another IR pedal to my board to make things a bit easier. I might try this or wait for the Voiceprint. It's crazy how many options we will have soon.
Yep this is the ‘year of IR’.
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Old 09-24-2020, 10:32 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Great review Aaron! Thanks!

Will you keep the OMJM?

I think the simple dovetail removes some of the low end rumble, standards Martins have. I guess it is a + when you play amplified.

Cuki
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  #7  
Old 09-24-2020, 10:53 AM
Willie_D Willie_D is offline
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Great review and certainly in line with my experience of the Optima Air. I long ago gave up on the idea of "my guitar only bigger," and see the goal of acoustic amplification as "a more acceptable amplified tone reminiscent of my guitar." This little box certainly does that, and quite well.

I agree that even without IR, the Optima is a solid acoustic DI. With IR it's even better.
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Old 09-24-2020, 11:30 AM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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Originally Posted by Cuki79 View Post
Great review Aaron! Thanks!

Will you keep the OMJM?

I think the simple dovetail removes some of the low end rumble, standards Martins have. I guess it is a + when you play amplified.

Cuki
That’s another story. I personally don’t care about rumble too much. I do enjoy the OM though. Will take a few more days to decide.
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  #9  
Old 09-26-2020, 02:45 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Aaron sent me the IR file generated by the Optima AIR



On the left side you see the spectrum ranging from 20 Hz to 20 kHz (10^2 being 100 Hz, 10^3 being 1kHz...)

On the right side you see the IR in time domain.

Let's start with the right picture in time-domain:
The first striking feature is the fact that they cut "hard" the IR. There is no shaping of the tail. It means this IR could have sound "reverby" if it was longer or if careful listening is made.

The second striking feature is that it is weak. The amplitude is bound between +/-0.1. A normalized IR would be bound between +/-1. That's is the reason why Nux included a IR level/volume boost I guess.

Let's now focus on the leftt picture in frequency-domain:

The most striking feature is how well balanced is the IR. apart from the slight boost at 200 Hz, the overall frequency correction lies within a 20dB range.
* There frequencies below 100Hz are attenuated
* There is a boost at 100-200Hz to take into acount the main top and soundhole resonance.
* Then there is a valley kind of simley-face EQ in the low mids (500-800Hz)
* In the top end you have the classic interferences of many path related to the top complexity and tiny bit of room (think as a hyper short multipath reverb)

As a comparison, I show here two IRs from the free database. Those are the very first ones I made for Aaron so I think he played like 30s of single notes in the recording (not comparable to what he strummed for the Nux training). At that time (it was years ago), he had an OM-28 with a Fishman Matrix. He probably did not angle the mic away from the soundhole toward the neck as he did for the Nux demo.

Raw IR file:

Match IR file:


The main difference is that I like to shape the IR tails. I like the IR to fade, to avoid weird artifacts. It's not compulsory but it's my preference.
The Raw IR spectrum shows a huge 200 Hz boost that is not counterbalanced in the high end. That's the reason why many IR sound boomy and muddy and need a blend pot to bring back life and air. There are only two way to tame this peak: EQ or mic position.

The second IR is made with the Match process which is more balanced than the raw process. Now you get the smiley face frequency response again with highs that are pushed forward. This can also create some digital artefacts as Maury mentioned. One can see the low end is strongly still boosted.

So can I say why Aaron demo sounded good?
Here are my 2 cents:
* The OMJM is not as boomy as an OM-28. One can here from the mic take that the strings tone is clear and present. the tone has less flesh and meat than an OM-28. I think it is due to the simple dovetail. It makes a better guitar for amplified stage performance. The OM-28 has this meat and flesh, fat sound that will conveys into a giant boost in 200Hz range.
* The mic position Aaron chose also enhanced the string tone over the low end rumble.
* Finally and not the least, the Nux Optima Air did its job.

Would I buy an Optima Air?
No. The IR pedal I use on my pedalboard is a Nux NSS-5. It runs on the verdugo plateform similarly to the Optima Air. So I would not improve my tone buying an Optima Air as regards specs. I would have if they provided a blend pot which is not available on the NSS-5.

Is it better than Tonedexter?
I have no idea. All I can say, is that TD EQ the high end. The Nux Optima Air does not seem to do anything in that regard. So the ringings Maury said he did not hear on Aaron demos might be there for other guitars.

Why do I say that?
There are at least 5 peaks above 1KHz in the Optima AIR IR that are ready to ring. The shape of the tail shows there is nothing to prevent them to ring. One can clearly see at 0.04s the IR signal is not tamed.... and this signal is the superposition of those ringings.
So why don't we hear them. Probably most of the IR demo you hear, have a kind of High-pass filter or Parametric EQ to tame the low end mud that automatically push forward the high end and reveal the top end artefacts. Aaron Optima AIR IR being very balanced you don't hear those.

Conclusion:
I think the OMJM is as valuable as a stage guitar, than the NUX Optima air as a preamp. You might not get as good results with a HD-28 reimagined with a pair of K&K.

What do we neet:
* Aaron can you please post a demo with a standard dreadnought and another pickup?
* Aaron, we can't wait to see the Tonedexter vs NUX video. Can you also add my free algorithm in the contest, don't forget to save with full option and add Jon's algorithm. I would not be suprised if Jon wins. In order to train the pedals, please don't use a looper. Record with your UA interface to have maximum quality.

My 2 cents,
Cuki
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http://acousticir.free.fr/

Last edited by Cuki79; 09-26-2020 at 03:05 AM.
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  #10  
Old 09-26-2020, 03:27 AM
shufflebeat shufflebeat is offline
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Hi A

My limited experience with IRs suggests that when you play with restricted dynamic range, ie. not too soft, not too hard, the IR comes out "louder" than if I produce it with hard playing, as though the algorithm needed to reduce level to accommodate the peaks.

In your vid you comment that one IR was louder than another, do you think this might account for it or did you ever get round to exploring that?

P.S., nice analysis, Cuki.
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Old 09-26-2020, 04:08 AM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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Originally Posted by shufflebeat View Post
Hi A

My limited experience with IRs suggests that when you play with restricted dynamic range, ie. not too soft, not too hard, the IR comes out "louder" than if I produce it with hard playing, as though the algorithm needed to reduce level to accommodate the peaks.

In your vid you comment that one IR was louder than another, do you think this might account for it or did you ever get round to exploring that?

P.S., nice analysis, Cuki.
I didn’t figure the volume thing out. In the NUX demo it seems loud. I may have done something wrong but I wanted to just do it how anyone else would.

For the vs video I would wait for the Baggs pedal and do one video on all of the current pedals. They are all quite different. I’m happy to add Cuki’s generator to the mix and it’s good that the NUX allows third party IR’s to the mix. Cuki thank you for analyzing the files. I can’t wait to start playing gigs again because at the end of the day all I care about whether it translates to stage well or not.
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  #12  
Old 09-26-2020, 04:51 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Originally Posted by AeroUSA View Post
I can’t wait to start playing gigs again because at the end of the day all I care about whether it translates to stage well or not.
I totally agree. I made my algorithm to be as close as possible to the mic tone... but I realised it is not the best when amplified. For example, Jon uses his own IR live because those retains more of the pickup qualities than mine, thanks to a hidden blend feature I explained in previous threads.

That is also why I think if I would use LiVe, IR blend pot is a must.

However, nowadays, I think I don’t want my guitar « only louder ». I want a solid strings tone with meat and flesh but no mud. Good presence to cut. The mic sound is generally scooped. It does not cut as well, especially once the high end is crushed by everything on the signal chains. So you need the mids. Right now I am happy with my DIY pickup, It could probably benefit from an internal mic to Add some « air » but I don’t have the time right now.
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Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
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Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
http://acousticir.free.fr/
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  #13  
Old 09-26-2020, 05:23 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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I think a demo exploring the absolute minimum of extra hardware to create the IR would be useful. A Helix is a high bar for a mic preamp and gain control of the acoustic pickup (the guitar has a volume control?).

It sounds impressly good.

Of late I like the mic much further from the guitar than a year ago (8 -> 16").

Lately I'm finding that magnetic pickups, with strong unwound string response, are a better fit to what I am doing when performing. In a duo a great acoustic tone is lost in the mix, but a weak high E very clearly hurts classic rock covers. Many have commented on my better tone and few of them were guitarists.
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  #14  
Old 09-26-2020, 06:26 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
Lately I'm finding that magnetic pickups, with strong unwound string response, are a better fit to what I am doing when performing. In a duo a great acoustic tone is lost in the mix, but a weak high E very clearly hurts classic rock covers. Many have commented on my better tone and few of them were guitarists.
Just reminds me that Jon and I are among the people who invested the most of their time in IRs... and actually do not use them anymore.

lol
Cuki
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Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
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Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013)
Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
http://acousticir.free.fr/
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  #15  
Old 09-26-2020, 08:08 AM
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Methos1979 Methos1979 is offline
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Another great review by Aaron! Thanks so much!! I always watch them all and find them interesting and very useful if I'm in the market for such a device.

I have not gone down the IR road. I'm a less-is-more guy. I just don't have the skills or need. As a very basic cowboy chord player with a much more talented and attractive blonde lead singer, I have found that no one notices or listens to the 'band' anyway. I could be playing a tuba, for all they care!

And like Cuki and Jon said so well above, chasing excellent tone live for me isn't worth the effort for me as I would surely just go back to the bare minimum. But I can appreciate excellent 'mic-like' tone especially since being forced to stream live in these challenging days. Our preferred method these days is to just play and sing acoustically into our ETL Edwina.

Last edited by Methos1979; 09-26-2020 at 09:27 AM.
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