How good is your ear?

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by macmanmatty

I have a deep understanding of theory scales, chord theory, key signatures, 6ths 4ths 2nds flats, ionic, dorian, major, minor. I was merly making a joke about the h note based on sound because I can not hear an octave the open D string and third fret B string sound like night and day to me again tuned or not and for what my ear can tell one could be a "Mb" note or some other funky lettered note that don't exist. also the 5th A and open d string sound very different to me tuned or not tuned (night and day). All I hear is sounds not notes, no octaves , no keys no nothing.

Well, you'r e hearing them, whether you like it or not . You're just not identifying them as what they are.
In that case - again if I'm not misunderstanding you - you seem to have a very unusual disconnection between your ear and your theoretical knowledge.
If you know all that theory, I take it you've made a conscious choice not to make the connection with the sounds, presumably because you get by with the sounds as you find them. The labelling (the theoretical categorisation) is of no use or interest to you. (Which is fine.)

Eg, it's quite reasonable to hear two D's an octave apart as fundamentally different sounds. (Try singing each one, and the difference is stark! .)
But we give them the same letter name for good theoretical reasons, as well as acoustical ones.
Almost every musical culture in the world recognises the octave as a fundamental musical division. (Whether they give octaves of one pitch different names, to express the difference, may be another issue. Even in the west, we use octave designations for some theoretical purposes.)
IOW, while octaves are clearly different, they are the second closest pitch relationship; the unison being the closest.
Again - as you hear yourself - two notes in unison can still sound different, but the difference is due to timbre, not pitch. Timbre is not a quality that music theory cares about; so, to all theoretical intents and purposes, a tenor sax playing middle C is identical to a flute playing middle C, even though someone with the worst musical ear in the world can tell the difference.

Eg, you may be conscious of a difference between 5th fret A string and open D string (when in tune). But you can't tell another musician to play "this" D and not "that" D. As far as anyone else is concerned it's the same D. Ie, you have to find a way to not care.

Originally Posted by macmanmatty

For example if I hear a hammer on in a song I can tell that it is a 3rd 4th hammer on for whatever key I play it in. But, I cannot tell the song is in the key of A major and it is a C# to D hammer on. But I can tell you are hammering on from the 3rd note of the scale to the 4th note of the scale in whatever major key I decide to play the song in.

Right - that shows possession of good relative pitch, and absence of perfect pitch. Which is an ideal state for a musician.

But I'll admit your statement that "the 5th A and open d string sound very different to me tuned or not tuned (night and day)" still baffles me somewhat. Yes, there are timbral differences, and an open string has a different resonance from a fretted one. But these are trivial and (usually) negligible differences.
It also looks as if you're saying the difference is the same regardless of whether they're in tune or not, which is crazy. If the difference between them is "night and day" when they're in tune, what the hell do they sound like when they're out of tune??

[TomiPaldanius]

I still don't have very good ear compared to the best and always had a bit of a struggle when I did my professional studies. Now I am much better and sometimes it is even possible to imagine whole song inside my head and repeat it with the guitar without any other reference than just singing it inside my head and thinking which chords would fit at the same time.

I think the question should also be that: how you use your ear?

[Irish Pennant]

I have a terrible ear and a disconnect between music, my guitar and my brain. I have a very basic understanding of music theory. If I look at the lyrics and chords of a common song, the music escapes me. Even a three chord easy to strum song.

I love playing the guitar, I play it almost everyday and for at least an hour or three at a time. I've come to terms with my limitations, I don't even try anymore to play cover songs. I've created my own music, my own style and I guess my own ear. At this point in my playing, I'm pleased with what I'm doing and I don't regret having a terrible ear.

[Dave Keir]

I've been playing since 1958 and my ear is still terrible. I can recognise most common chord types by ear but that's it. Couldn't tell you the key, though. Or sing you a major 5th without aforethought. The shame, the shame, the shame...

[TomiPaldanius]

I think almost 100% players have bad ear for playing at the beginning. I would say it is all about how much time you put to it. If you play from tabs mechanically all the time, how you can expect that your ear is good. Impossible. It is not a natural born talent.

Same goes with playing the guitar mechanically. No one born with "shredding like god" abilities. You need to practice your abilities.

All the bad ear people. What is your percentage for ear training compared to mechanical playing from paper? Music is for ears and you should practice it with ears. If you complain about your ear playing skills, usually the person to blame is = look at the mirror. I understand if you are deaf.

[Fruitloop]

Originally Posted by TomiPaldanius

I think almost 100% players have bad ear for playing at the beginning. I would say it is all about how much time you put to it. If you play from tabs mechanically all the time, how you can expect that your ear is good. Impossible. It is not a natural born talent.

Same goes with playing the guitar mechanically. No one born with "shredding like god" abilities. You need to practice your abilities.

All the bad ear people. What is your percentage for ear training compared to mechanical playing from paper? Music is for ears and you should practice it with ears. If you complain about your ear playing skills, usually the person to blame is = look at the mirror. I understand if you are deaf.

Agreed.
I used to be like that, couldn't figure anything out. I was just practicing my chops and shredding away. Nowadays luckily it's a lot better and it's all because I have put in time to better my skill.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Dave Keir

I've been playing since 1958 and my ear is still terrible. I can recognise most common chord types by ear but that's it.

That means your ear is good, not terrible.
It could probably be improved, but I bet you couldn't recognise common chord types when you began. It's simply not possible for your ear not to improve the more you play. You probably just don't recognise the difference, because your overall ability kept pace with it, or got ahead of it.
It's also true - as with most skills - that if you don't need to use your ear, then it won't develop beyond basic levels, beyond the minimum required for your usual musical tasks. (If you read from notation or tab all the time, and use tuners to tune, then you need your ear less and less.)

Originally Posted by Dave Keir

Couldn't tell you the key, though.

Few people can. They have absolute pitch, which - while undoubtedly impressive to those who don't have it - is an unnecessary skill for a musician.

Originally Posted by Dave Keir

Or sing you a major 5th without aforethought. The shame, the shame, the shame...

You mean a perfect 5th. No such thing as a "major 5th". (Add one more "shame" to that list... )
Again, I suspect you've never (or very rarely) been called upon to sing a perfect 5th (or any other interval) "without aforethought". Me neither (luckily ). So you never needed to train for that skill. No problem - and no "shame, not unless you recklessly go for some vocal audition...

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by TomiPaldanius

I think almost 100% players have bad ear for playing at the beginning. I would say it is all about how much time you put to it. If you play from tabs mechanically all the time, how you can expect that your ear is good. Impossible. It is not a natural born talent.

Same goes with playing the guitar mechanically. No one born with "shredding like god" abilities. You need to practice your abilities.

Absolutely!

I believe we're all born with the same ear, the same musical capacities. Those who appear "gifted" (later in life) simply began their musical journey much earlier in life, usually as young children. It's like language skills, in that the younger you learn it, the easier it is and the more embedded ("natural") it becomes.
Those - like most of us - who miss out on intensive, active music-making as kids just take a lot longer to learn it all, as either teenagers or adults. (And teenagers still have it easier than adults.)

If there's any "special talent" that separates "geniuses" from "normals", it's the ability to commit to one activity exclusively, for hours on end - and moreover to enjoy that activity without ever getting bored. Such a "talent" can be applied to any kind of activity - sport, art, science, writing, business, computer programming.... Choosing music is a matter of environment and inspiration, whatever turns you on at the right moment in your life.

[Blueser100]

Pretty darn good, and perhaps to a fault. This past weekend at a guitar jam I sang harmony on a song I didn't know. Somehow I was able to find the 3rd above the singer during the chorus and blended right in.