Deadly quiet pedal?

[Stepan Axman]

Hi everyone,

maybe You can help me out:

When I plug my guitar straight into the amp (AER Alpha plus) it is deadly quiet, only sound/music goes out.
Absolutely no white noise/hum/ etc.... even if the gain is on the max (I use it that way).
But when I put just about any pedal in the way, there is small amount of white noise, if the pedal is on.
(If it's true-bypass it is quiet until it is turned on.)
Even if run on bateries.

I did always use some pedals so I actually didn't noticed this small white-noise since I started using AER and went straight to the amp from guitar...

Started asking around I was told that every pedal has a small amount of white noise, since there is preamp in it (reverbs, delays, loopers, etc).

I tried many different pedals (EBS, L.R. Baggs, Boss, Fender) and even dedicated acoustic preamp (Headway) and all of it has some amount of white noise.
Doesn't matter what instrument is plugged.

It is not noticable when playing with the band, but when I play solo in quiet room, I still can hear the difference with whitenoise/deadly quiet for sure.
It is more issue for me than for the audience though, but still.

Is it possible to have 100% deadly quiet pedal unit? As when I am plugged straight into the amp?
(and it is the same even if I use effect loop)

Thank You for Your opinions and experience...

[shufflebeat]

There are several possibilities (and more) here:

* You’re obsessing over details in order to distract your own mind from doing something more challenging and less fun, you really need to put this to one side, turn down the high frequencies on your amp and get some work done.

* Your issue is one of SNR, signal to noise ratio. Assuming that pedals and other amp stages all produce their own consistent noise whatever level is fed into them, then it follows that a good meaty input signal will result in a relatively low “system self noise” when put to work compared to a weedy signal which is later amp’d up (including the noise) to a useful level. This is one of the factors discussed when understanding “gain staging”.

** SNR is also mediated by tone controls - turn down the higher frequencies on your amp to kill the hiss part of the “white noise” (it’s not usually really white noise, just hiss) then adjust them on your guitar/pedals to compensate. This is similar to how some noise reduction used to work.

* Your power supplies may be exacerbating the problems above, although you mention battery use, which speaks against this suggestion.

* You might want to consider the kind of noise gate normally associated with electric guitars for which this is often a major issue, affecting even those without bat-ears.

Pick any combination of these possibilities and add your own. Quieter pedals do exist but the only cheaper quiet effects are software.

[Cuki79]

Also bad cable, bad shielding, improper gain staging…

[Rudy4]

Pedals that in theory are "dead quiet" are usually listed as "true bypass" in their specifications.

Any device that uses a "semi-conductor junction" within the circuitry will introduce the hiss (white noise) that you are hearing. It's the nature of the physics involved with the electronics that are used. A true bypass device routes the bypass signal in a way that avoids all of the circuitry.

[YamahaGuy]

Have you tried using the effects loop?
[Out of the send to the pedal. Then from the pedal back to the amp and into its return]

Cables were the first issue that came to my mind.

[Stepan Axman]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

Pedals that in theory are "dead quiet" are usually listed as "true bypass" in their specifications.

Any device that uses a "semi-conductor junction" within the circuitry will introduce the hiss (white noise) that you are hearing. It's the nature of the physics involved with the electronics that are used. A true bypass device routes the bypass signal in a way that avoids all of the circuitry.

Thank You, that is what I was told as well so I guess there is no "dead silent" pedal or preamp and need get used to it.

[Stepan Axman]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

There are several possibilities (and more) here:

* Your issue is one of SNR, signal to noise ratio. Assuming that pedals and other amp stages all produce their own consistent noise whatever level is fed into them, then it follows that a good meaty input signal will result in a relatively low “system self noise” when put to work compared to a weedy signal which is later amp’d up (including the noise) to a useful level. This is one of the factors discussed when understanding “gain staging”.

I thought about this, as for the solution. But, having a weak signal, how do I build it up if any preamp or pedal does produce some hum / white noise ?

Can You recommend some really quiet preamp?

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Stepan Axman

I thought about this, as for the solution. But, having a weak signal, how do I build it up if any preamp or pedal does produce some hum / white noise ?

Can You recommend some really quiet preamp?

There are specialty preamps such as the Cloudlifter series that are designed to provide ultra-clean gain without introducing additional noise associated with the usual high gain preamp circuitry.

If your situation you might also consider looking into a noise gate. A good gate will effectively silence your signal until you actually play, effectively masking the noise because your instrument's signal will be well above the audible portion of the noise that might otherwise be heard.

[Eastbound]

Make sure its not a cable or anything else in your set up. I add pedals and it does not add any hiss. Use XLR cables where possible

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

Pedals that in theory are "dead quiet" are usually listed as "true bypass" in their specifications. . . .

Stepan uses true bypass. They're quiet when they're off, not when they're on.

[Charlie Bernstein]

All good suggestions above. Here's another thought: All pedals are not created equal. And not all types of pedals are created equal.

I have seven pedals on my acoustic board: four EQs, an ABCD switch box, a tuner, and a preamp. They're all dead quiet.

You haven't told us what pedals you're using. On my electric board, my last wah pedal was quiet, but the ones I had before were crackly. I've never found a quiet compressor, so I don't use 'em. But there's probably one out there. I had a hissy Tube Screamer for a while, but the Soul Food I have now is a huge improvement. I've had noisy reverb pedals, but the one I have now is silent. Likewise trem.

So just keep experimenting. And as has said above, it's fine to shoot for perfect, but any improvement is an improvement, right?

The effects loop suggestion was good, too. And you might look for a noise gate that suits your purposes.

The good news is that playing acoustic, effects aren't necessary or even very helpful. In fact, they're prone to spoiling a good guitar's sound. That means you can take your time and a board you actually like.

Let us know how it goes!

[Mobilemike]

Why do you have your gain turned all the way up? Is your master volume turned all the way up as well?

If so, it’s probably time for a different amp/PA as that one doesn’t seem to have enough power for you.

If your master volume is not all the way up, try turning that up and your gain down to get the volume you need without noise.

Every electronic device is going to have some self noise - thats simply the nature of electricity. Some can be quieter than others, but some level of noise will always be there. The more devices you have in series, the higher that noise floor will get, as they all add together, which explains why you can’t hear just one device’s noise floor, but you can hear two devices’.

Having your gain on the amp maxed out amplifies all of that noise along with the signal.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

Stepan uses true bypass. They're quiet when they're off, not when they're on.

Very true, and precisely why one would seek out a true bypass pedal. If an effect is activated then the signal that we're feeding it will be sufficiently high enough to mask any self-noise from the pedal's circuitry.

Not actively using the effect? Use the bypass and kill the noise.

[Stepan Axman]

Originally Posted by Mobilemike

Why do you have your gain turned all the way up? Is your master volume turned all the way up as well?

If so, it’s probably time for a different amp/PA as that one doesn’t seem to have enough power for you.

If your master volume is not all the way up, try turning that up and your gain down to get the volume you need without noise.

Well the Gain is set to max because of the weak signal from the instrument (pasiv pickup). The master volume is about 10 or 11 max.
But since I am also singing I need to set master volume according the mic input as well.
And singing also complicate using effect loop.

[Stepan Axman]

Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

All good suggestions above. Here's another thought: All pedals are not created equal. And not all types of pedals are created equal.

I have seven pedals on my acoustic board: four EQs, an ABCD switch box, a tuner, and a preamp. They're all dead quiet.

You haven't told us what pedals you're using. On my electric board, my last wah pedal was quiet, but the ones I had before were crackly. I've never found a quiet compressor, so I don't use 'em. But there's probably one out there. I had a hissy Tube Screamer for a while, but the Soul Food I have now is a huge improvement. I've had noisy reverb pedals, but the one I have now is silent. Likewise trem.

So just keep experimenting. And as has said above, it's fine to shoot for perfect, but any improvement is an improvement, right?

The effects loop suggestion was good, too. And you might look for a noise gate that suits your purposes.

The good news is that playing acoustic, effects aren't necessary or even very helpful. In fact, they're prone to spoiling a good guitar's sound. That means you can take your time and a board you actually like.

Let us know how it goes!

Actually, dealing with the white noise/hum led me to kind of build my sound around clean tone without effect... I like it this way, even is way more demanding.
Maybe I will have to go with two setups - one, for my solo quiet recitals and second for band / collaboration use, since the other instrumets will cover the white noise...

I do play really gently and use a lot of silence in my songs so I am afraid that using noise gate/noise suppresor would not be an option.