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  #1  
Old 06-22-2018, 05:46 PM
abba abba is offline
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Default Why is standard tuning EADGBE and not EADGCF?

Wouldn't it be more convenient to have them ALL separated by fourths?
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Old 06-22-2018, 08:11 PM
DupleMeter DupleMeter is offline
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it's due to the logistics of making chord forms.

It would be theoretically "cleaner" to keep everything as Perfect 4ths, but very messy when you try to make movable barre forms.

Otherwise we should just follow suite with the orchestra strings & tune in perfect 5ths to make moving to/from other strings easier.
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Old 06-23-2018, 06:21 AM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abba View Post
Wouldn't it be more convenient to have them ALL separated by fourths?
Just tune your guitar that way and try chording and you'll find out why not.

It's mostly a matter of ergonomics related to the human hand, not music theory.
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Old 06-23-2018, 06:50 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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The ergonomics issue is debatable. One can still play chords in 4ths tuning, you just can't play full barres - you have to invent alternative movable forms.
Against that, there is an appealing symmetry to chord shapes across the strings (this is one attraction for those who play in EADGCF - yes they exist! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_fourths_tuning):
3-2-0-0-x-x = G
x-3-2-0-0-x = C
x-x-3-2-0-0 = F
0-2-2-1-x-x = E
x-0-2-2-1-x = A
x-x-0-2-2-1 = D
Similar parallels apply to minor shapes.
Of course, there's the issue of muting those top strings when you don't want them! Either that or you need some tricky fingering for full 6-string shapes:
G = 3-2-0-0-2-2
C = x-3-2-0-0-2
A = x-0-2-2-1-4
E would have to be 0-2-2-1-4-3 (fret 5th and 4th strings with one finger??)
IOW, there are ergonomic issues, but most of them are for players already used to EADGBE. (As the above site says, Allan Holdsworth has said if he was starting again he'd tune EADGCF. But of course he - like most of us! - has too much invested in EADGBE.)

A tuning issue might be more relevant for EADGBE. Tuning by ear is easier if the outer strings are the same note and the 2nd string has a harmonic relationship with them (B is same as 7th fret harmonic on 6th string). Also, strings 4-3-2 form a major triad.
Of course, that aspect would favour open tunings, drop tunings or DADGAD, but EADGBE has the advantage of a compromise: no one key is much easier than any other, but a good handful are accessible. With open tunings, one key is very easy, but all the rest become harder.
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Last edited by JonPR; 06-23-2018 at 07:03 AM.
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:22 AM
jwayne jwayne is offline
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Just wanted to chime in that perfect fourths (P4) tuning IS a thing and a few pros do use it, such as Tom Quayle and Stanley Jordan. But only a few.

And let's not forget NST tuning (ala Robert Fripp) which is in perfect fifths.
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Old 06-23-2018, 12:52 PM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Originally Posted by jwayne View Post
Just wanted to chime in that perfect fourths (P4) tuning IS a thing and a few pros do use it, such as Tom Quayle and Stanley Jordan. But only a few.

And let's not forget NST tuning (ala Robert Fripp) which is in perfect fifths.
Mostly. In fact it's CGDAEG - minor 3rd on top.
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Old 06-23-2018, 12:53 PM
jwayne jwayne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
Mostly. In fact it's CGDAEG - minor 3rd on top.
Yeah, I think that was mostly for practical considerations because of string tension.
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Old 06-25-2018, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abba View Post
Wouldn't it be more convenient to have them ALL separated by fourths?
Hi abba

First of all, you could tune DGCFBbEb to try out the fingerings the intervals bring (safer and far less likely to take-out your 1st string, plus far less string tension).

Then try some scales (both open-scales and all-fretted-scales across the neck). The watch Stanley Jordon play for an hour or so (Your posed question IS his standard tuning).

I suspect it might be ok for playing solo lead lines, but not so chord-fingering-friendly.

In regards to your question…Every beginner looks for quick-n-easy ways to play things, so if your proposed tuning were actually more convenient, beginning guitar students would be all over it!



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Old 06-26-2018, 02:15 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwayne View Post
Yeah, I think that was mostly for practical considerations because of string tension.
Sure. I think possibly also to assist with chord shapes.

I guess he could have gone one back and combined bass and standard guitar ranges with FCGDAE. Imagine what one could do with that!
I know John Etheridge has experimented with fitting bass strings to his Tele in order to be able to play walking lines while improvising on the top 4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8ydx_9hZKI
(The 6th and 5th are tuned to bass E and A - octave below normal - but probably a lighter gauge than the usual bass guitar E and A.)
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Last edited by JonPR; 06-26-2018 at 02:21 AM.
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Old 06-26-2018, 02:19 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi abba

First of all, you could tune DGCFBbEb to try out the fingerings the intervals bring (safer and far less likely to take-out your 1st string, plus far less string tension).
It doesn't actually introduce a lot more tension to raise the B and E to C and F. It certainly shouldn't break any strings.
But tuning the other four down just a half-step would deal with that issue anyway: D# G# C# F# B E.
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