help identify please ! unknown high quality classical

[ssdeluxe]

Hi there good acoustic guitar loving folk ! My apologies, I don't post much, but appreciate the wealth of knowledge I find here when I need help.

I have had my classical gtr since the 90's, and, its well made, well executed, and glorious in tonality....but I have no idea of the make/model...anything about it. I was hoping someone here might notice the headstock shape or rosette for some clues.

I hope its ok for me to link another site: (if not, I'm happy to take it down)

I have it up here

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/in...#post-27323792

thanks in advance for any info anyone can gleen from the pics as to the origin of this instruments.

much thanks !
stephen

[nightflight]

You might some identifying marks on the underside of the soundboard. Try using a dental mirror and take a look.

[Bax Burgess]

I haven't seen tuners with a 'pinched' plate, for securing the ends of the tuning keys - suggests a cost cutting decision (oops, see edit). Looking inside the soundhole, can you upload (on this or the other site) an angle showing more of the inner neck block? The binding and the backstrip are simple, so no higher cost there. Top is solid? I'm guessing lam sides and possibly back. Maybe this will be a case of what it's not. I'm tending to think not Japanese. That is a nice rosette. The case original, did you buy the guitar new?

I zoomed in on the side view of the tuners, and they do look to be of a higher quality. Do the Spanish builders use this type of plate?

[dosland]

The fret dots, ivaroid binding, and repeating heart pattern inlay should probably help someone narrow it down. I would be surprised to find it's Spanish, and unless it's really a low end instrument I wouldn't expect it to be Japanese either. So that's totally unhelpful. Someone will know something, either here or over at the del camp forum, where some people love this sort of thing.

[ssdeluxe]

thank you kindly for the replies thus far. !

I had a piezo installed in the 90's (don't need it, probably will take it out), sorry if that is impeding the visual on the inside of the heel area.

oh yes, I put the dot markers on the neck (forgive me for that....studio guy I met when I was coming up had that done, and, for quick studio work..I like to have the reference... they are mop, pro done, I don't play the nylon that often so its nice to have the reference...easily reversible, as is the pu.)

to update questions from the members here:

--it was pretty old when I got it in the 90's. (already lacquer checking then, the rw is quite tight grained)
--all solid woods
--wood binding-not ivoroid
--case is generic Canadian case from 90's (when I bought it used.)

here' s some more pics, I'm happy to take more if it helps, thank you so much !



https://photos.app.goo.gl/jAnR6TBJMTyoDeJt9

[ssdeluxe]

the binding is actually maple or sycamore, I found this just looking around a bit:

http://www.condehermanos.com/en/tien...ssical/cc-38-2

very close in looks and the Conde Hermanos older model's headstock looks very very close. (but still...no confirmation, I can't seem to find much more...yet)




I emailed http://www.condehermanos.com and they confirmed its not one of their's, the search continues !

[Bax Burgess]

Those are topnotch photos. The binding and purfling are not as decorative as what I've seen in upper level Japanese guitars from the 60s, 70s, and 80s. I've often seen the sloped inner heel. The rosette is a standout, very nice. The tuners look to be non-original, an upgrade. Whatever the brand of the guitar, if you could find the answer, it would add to the mystery if it had been made by an anonymous, highly skilled luthier for a well known brand, for instance, Ryoji Matsuoka for Aria. It's a guitar I would pick up and try.

[ssdeluxe]

thanks Bax for your insights , awesome ! I think you are bang on... all of your comments, and, from others as well, point to possibly what you suggest, a higher skilled luthier working for a distributor from Japan, could even be local to around here.

the mystery continues ! thanks so much for the input.

[LadysSolo]

That's a very nice-looking guitar! Hope you can find out the answer. Canada had some very high-quality independent luthiers in the past, perhaps one of them?

[ssdeluxe]

thanks LadysSolo, it might be a Canadian, did the Japanese off-brand stuff have nitro finishes ? (most other guitars I've encountered, mostly electrics seem to have been poly) (pretty sure its nitro, the shellac finish looks/feels different as memory serves).

the search continues ! thanks.

[redir]

It's definitely a nice looking guitar built in the Spanish tradition and appears to be made with good materials. I would suggest that the top is actually spruce though. Cedar does on occasion show medulary rays but it's more typically seen in spruce. When they are really old like that the smell isn't necessarily a give away too but I guess if you smell cedar then that's what it is, looks like spruce to me though.

I love that heart rosette too.

That could be BRW too, the sides in particular have that look but the back does too especially if it's from the 60's when BRW was still readily available in nice straight grained sets. That can be determined by the sniff test but you would have to know what it smells like and reach inside with a piece of sand paper and scuff up some dust to smell it.

[ssdeluxe]

Thanks redir !

interesting you think its spruce...I had an old takamine 132 (or some such I don't remember exact model) years ago that had the cedar top with lots of medular rays...like you said, probably not the norm ....still could be spruce.

interesting on the braz call...you are right..it could be ...I thought it to be high quality old stuff...the new stuff is wider in grain usually (I bought it used in the 90's and it already had all the lacquer checking then...its gotta be 60's or 70's)

I will get out some sandpaper and have a go inside and let you know what I find. I do know the braz smell ! a lot of my guitars have it on the neck...its like "double bubble gum" from when I was a kid...the little hard gum that was wrapped in a wax paper with a comic cartoon..the good old days !

no question: as soon as you crack the case..it just wafts that sweet cedar smell (but maybe its the nitro ? ...I don't recall old nitro smelling so intense...but who knows ! )

though (maybe the kerfing inside is doing that...although, I think its maple or sycamore kerfing like the binding).

this thing is an anigma....wrapped in a riddle...wrapped in a tortilla shell !!! lol


My next step is to take it to the 12fret.com here in Toronto area, there's always crazy guitar people hanging out there...and they have quite the selection of classicals.

still searching !

[redir]

Yup exactly! That old bubble gum, what ever brand that was. I know exactly what you are talking about.

If you smell cedar then that's probably what it is.

[ssdeluxe]

the gum was called "double bubble" , it lasted about 10seconds..but its that smell !

[redir]

Yup that was it.