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Old 03-01-2016, 09:39 PM
DavidE DavidE is offline
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Default My New Thalia Capo Version 2 Review - Details

Thalia Capo Version 2.0 - Part 1 of 2

Version 1.0 – The Kickstarter

I first found out about the Thalia Capo Kickstarter on The Acoustic Guitar Forum (AGF). At first I wasn’t too interested, but as I read more and saw some pictures, I became very interested and ended up as a backer for two capos. I also bought two of the expanded fretpad packs.

My experiences with crowd funding weren’t great before this. I felt utterly ripped off by BeatBuddy due to delays delivering the pedal and then immense delays delivering the mac software that I would need to make the pedal useable on a gig. It all eventually came, but the pedal sits in my basement. I may put the time in to make it useable soon. I also backed Danny Tedesco’s movie, The Wrecking Crew. Good movie, but by the time I received my dvd, everyone else in the world had already seen the movie and I could have purchased the blu ray version on Amazon for a lot less than I contributed to the campaign only to receive a regular DVD.

I think Chris did a great job with the Kickstarter and delivered the capos in a reasonable amount of time while adding options along the way. I also felt he did a great job handling the complaints and issues that arose along the way, especially after delivery.

When backing a startup, you never know what you’re going to get. There’s risk involved. In this case, what I got were two capos that were so hard to use, they remained in their cases and I eventually damaged one guitar neck when trying to give it another shot. I also thought the video regarding the two handed method was condescending and should not have been released in light of the overwhelming number of complaints.

Despite my complaints, the company was response throughout and tried to be helpful and to make things right. Ultimately, I took the option to return the capos and fretpad kits, receive a refund and wait for version 2. They had no obligation to issue a refund in a kickstarter campaign.

Version 2.0 – Why Was I Asked to Write This Review?

I received an Email from Thalia stating that they read the posts on AGF about version 1, but that they felt my review and posts were fair and reasoned, even though negative about the capo. They asked if I would be interested in testing and posting a review of version 2. They did not ask to see the review before I posted and did not put any requirements on the contents. I think when you see the very short reviews posted by a couple of others who were asked to review V2, I think you can tell we took different approaches to our testing and how much detail, information and opinion to include in our reviews. I feel it’s my obligation to provide information to the members of this forum so that you can decide whether you want to consider buying one of these for yourself. I don’t feel any obligation to Thalia other than to post a review with my honest opinions. While some of the information below is factual, ultimately my thoughts on version 2 are my opinion. You may not agree.

Version 2.0 – The Review

THE BOTTOM LINE

No need to wait until the end to read my conclusion. I’m a happy camper. I think the new Thalia is a winner and I hope it’s a good choice for you too. For those who bought version 1 and were disappointed, frustrated with the tension or angry that they wasted their money on a pretty paperweight or that version 1 damaged their guitar, this one just might make you happy.

COMPARISONS

Let me first state that I returned all three version 1 capos, so I am not able to directly compare version 1 to version 2. Instead, I am able to compare version 2 to what I remember of version 1 and also to a number of other capos in my stable including: G7th Performance, G7th Performance 2, G7th Newport, (I didn’t like and gave away my G7th Nashville), Shubb, Kyser and the following D’Addario/Planet Waves capos: NS Artist, NS Tri Action, NS Capo and NS Capo Lite. I’ll include my Dunlop Trigger if I find it before I post this review.

I tried version 2 on the following guitars to get a good sample: Martin HD28, Martin D with low profile neck, Martin 000 with low profile neck, Taylor 810c, Taylor 814ce, Taylor 355ce, Bedell OM, Breedlove OM, Fender Teles (a couple of neck profiles), Fender strat, PRS HB1 – SAS – CE22 – Custom 22 (all with wide/fat necks which really aren’t either), Crafter SA, Gibson Les Paul Std. with 50’s neck and one with the slim taper compound radius neck. I think that’s a pretty good cross section. Bottom line is that the Thalia worked great as a capo on all of these guitars except the 12 string and one custom made tele with a VERY thick neck (more on these below).

I tried the capo on these guitars using fretpads that matched the guitar’s radius and that didn’t match. In a few instances, there was a good advantage to using the matching radius. Overall, none were too sensitive to a mismatch.

MY PERSONAL PREFERENCES

Like many of a certain age, my first capo was a bit of stretchy nylon rubber with a metal rod in the center. Dunlop still makes this one, so I imagine they still work. My second capo was the metal, felt and rubber Hamilton with a lever to loosen the pressure as you flipped the front bar with the clear rubber pad to “lock” into place. I used that for years and ran across it recently, but decided not to try it again. Next were Shubbs and I really love them to this day. My oldest are probably more than 20 years old. But as I played live more, I wanted something that would attach to my mic stand. In came the Kysers, but I had terrible problems with the Kysers sending my guitars (acoustics and electrics) sharp due to too much tension. After struggling for a few years, and keeping a Shubb in my pocket, I found the Dunlop Trigger and it worked like the Kyser but didn’t send the guitars out of tune. I was good for years after that.

Then came the G7th capos. I bought an early one from John Pierce and absolutely loved it. Bought a couple more over the years and have 2 still new in the package for when I need them. I love these capos for form and function. I also use a Performance 2 capo, but honestly I prefer the original. For some reason it just works better for me than the new, smaller version 2.

Over the last couple of years I’ve picked up a number of the D’Addario/Planet Waves capos. I bought some and I won some when D’Addario had their string code contest. I think I’ve really liked every one I’ve tried. A lot.

If you look in my gig bag, I take a G7th Performance, a Performance 2, a spring lever D’Addario and a couple of the screw types to every gig. They’re in a Crown bag with picks, a mic stand pick holder and maybe a few doo dads.

THE TENSION

This is the crux of the matter. I found version 1 to be unusable because it was way too difficult to get the capo open and keep it open. To me it simply wasn’t useable as a capo because the tension was so ridiculously high. I sent the following message to Chris on October 27, 2015: “I bought two capos but found them so difficult to open, I left one in the plastic container and struggled to use the other. I gave up on it until today when I decided to give it another shot. Of course the capo put a gouge in the neck of one of my guitars. Frankly, the difficulty to use the capo makes it not fit for its intended purpose. Can these capos be modified with less tension so they're useable? If not, do I have any options such as returning them and waiting for version 2 to be released?”

While trying to address my complaints, Thalia sent me another capo that had spring tension measured at the low end of what was acceptable, which I believe was around 15lbs based on the Email below about the tension of version 2. It was easier to open, but still really too difficult to use. I sent all the capos and tuning kits back and received a full refund. I’m guessing version 2 will cost more than I paid for version 1, but I don’t know the new pricing yet.

The first thing I did with version 2 was squeeze. My immediate thought was “they figured it out!!!!” I tried it again and again. Only then did I try it on a guitar. It’s still different to put on than my others and lacks the long squeeze handle of my Dunlop Trigger or NS Artist or NS TriAction, but it was a world of difference from the originals and even the low-tension version 1. I am talking night and day difference. For accuracy, I asked Thalia support about the difference in tension and received the following response:

“The 150 model had a spring tension range of 15 lbs. to 18.5 lbs., the range of the 2.0 is 9 lbs. to 13 lbs., but most seem to be falling in right around 11 lbs. The pre-loaded spring mechanism makes a pretty significant difference, while still allowing us to apply full force to the strings.”

I don’t know where mine measures, though I will update this if they can provide me with the information. All I know is that I now have a useable Thalia capo.

THE SIZE

I believe version 2 is the same size as version 1. I did forget to ask Thalia support to confirm this for me. Some find this too bulky. I don’t. I also prefer the larger original G7th to the new skinny model. I don’t have issues with the thin D’Addario/PW models or shubbs either. I just position the capo behind the fret and it doesn’t get in my way.

THE WEIGHT

Take a load off, or put one on. Per Thalia: “Both capos weigh about 3.25 oz.” Yes, I have lighter capos, but the weight of the Thalia is not an issue for me. I don’t notice any clear loss, or increase, in sustain due to the weight or other factors. Your mileage may vary. If you feel the difference by installing a slightly lighter set of knobs on your tuners, this may bother you. I can recommend the PW NS Lite. It’s VERY light.

Last edited by DavidE; 03-01-2016 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 03-01-2016, 09:40 PM
DavidE DavidE is offline
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PART 2

UP THE NECK

I tested the capo at different positions up and down the neck of MANY guitars and it worked really well. I tend to use a capo on the first, second, third, fifth, seventh and even the ninth for one song I rarely play. I can quickly move the capo (with the teflon fretpad) stopping on these frets and then back down again, it plays in tune on every fret. It's really remarkable. I have had issues with the G7th capos, and others, working cleanly on the first fret. The Thalia has no such problem. It is one area where I will prefer the Thalia over my other capos.

THICK NECK GUITARS

One friend who bought version 1 noted that the capo could not open wide enough to fit on a large 1” thick neck. I have a telecaster with an extremely thick V neck (might be more than 1” at the point of the V) and I tested version 2 on this guitar. As with version 1, version 2 would not open wide enough to fit on the neck. I tested some of my other capos and found that some, but not all, would fit. Among those that would “fit,” some applied too much pressure and sent the guitar sharp. My shubb kept popping off the neck on its own. Based on my test results, if you have a guitar with an especially thick neck, you will probably have to find a capo that fits the neck rather than expect every capo to fit the neck.

12 STRING GUITARS

I have an older Taylor 355 12 string. It has low action and more often than not I keep it tuned to Db. I have a Dunlop Trigger 12 string capo that works well on it. Cheap and effective.

I tested the Thalia on the Taylor 12 using the Teflon pad that came installed (I forget which it was now) and it did not apply pressure evenly across the strings, although it was long enough to cover all 12. I installed Teflon #15 which should have the correct radius for the Taylor. Same issue. I was able to adjust the capo so it worked, but it wouldn’t stay put and is not gig worthy. The instructions state that the rubber pads should be used on 12 string guitars and other instruments that have courses, so I tried the rubber #15. The results were the same as the Teflon #15.

In its current state, the Thalia is a no go for my Taylor 12. I asked a support rep if they were aware of the issue and, if so, whether they had suggestions. I received the following response:

“We have had mixed results with twelve string guitars, due to the difference in string gauge. In some cases (and likely your case) lighter octave strings don’t make proper contact with the fretpad, causing buzzing. The rubber does seem to help in some cases, but we’re currently developing a specific 12-string fretpad that will work consistently using the harder Teflon material. We’re hoping to have it available when we release the other expanded tuning kit options.”

I found the response interesting because I thought I had special fretpads for 12 strings in the expanded tuning kits I bought for the originals and went through the version 2 materials and pads twice looking for one here. I’m glad to know they’re working on the issue.

This begs the question…

WHAT ABOUT THE EXTENDED TUNING KIT FRETPADS?

When I bought the originals, I also bought the extra fret pad kits to play around with. I never opened them and I returned them with the originals. So, I asked whether there would be similar offerings for version 2.0:

“We will be releasing an expanded selection of fret pads to be sold separately, including a partial fret pad tuning kit, and a specialized Ukulele fret pad. These are still in development, but should be available shortly after the 2.0 release.”

I didn’t ask for a price. I think they were $10 for version 1. Well worth it for experimenting.

HOW MUCH WILL THESE COST?

I don’t know and I didn’t ask. Please direct these questions to the Chris and Thalia’s support staff.

WHEN WILL VERSION 2 BE AVAILABLE?

I don’t know. But when I asked, Thalia support wrote, “We expect the 2.0 to be available by the end of March, but we’re currently waiting on an update from the manufacturer before we announce a firm release date.”


WHY WOULD, OR SHOULD, I BUY A THALIA?

Now that the design is useable, this is the ultimate question, isn’t it? If you’re anything like me, you have capos that cost around $20 or less that do a great job. My G7th Performance capos were not much more as I bought most used/new or on deep sale. I think only the first one was close to $40. I haven’t tried any of the really expensive capos I’ve read about because ultimately they didn’t do more than my current crop and I couldn’t come up with a reason to spend $100 on a single capo. Thalia capos are not cheap. So, are there any reasons to spend the money on one? Or two? In other words, how is the Thalia different from the other capos on the market? For me, it’s easy to come up with three potential reasons to buy a version 2 as there are three things the Thalia does that others don’t do, or don’t do to this extent (you may identify more). If none of the following reasons apply to you, there’s no reason to buy a Thalia unless you just want one (that’s the camp I fall into at this point).

Reason No. 1

Aesthetics. Pure and simple looks. That’s what drew many of us to the Kickstarter in the first place. And they have greatly expanded the options for the plating, inlays and custom work. These are not stylish in the way the original G7th Performer was stylish. These are pure bling and I love it for that. Custom functional bling.

Reason No. 2

Versatility. While some of my other capos will work on different guitars with different fretboards, the Thalia is specifically designed to do so and with more precision. You can match the radius to your particular guitar and be confident it will work every time. You will spend less time adjusting your capo just right so the tension is correct and none of the strings buzz. When the extended fret pad kits are available, there should be various partial fretboards, a 12 string fretboard and others. Maybe for banjo? Mandolin?

It’s extremely easy and fast to change a fretpad. A couple of seconds. And you can do it while talking to an audience. It probably won’t be necessary, but it’s certainly doable.

Reason No. 3

Function. Slip sliding away…. I once bought a glider capo after watching Greg Bennett demo the capo at a NAMM show. He made it look easy. I didn’t find it easy, but I really didn’t have a use for it so it went to the next owner. Frankly, I didn’t like the way it operated and I didn’t think it worked well as a regular capo. I’m not sure if there is another capo designed for easy sliding other than the glider and the Thalia.

To be honest, I’m still not sure I have a good use for the sliding, but another guitarist might. I can see a few friends combining sliding with partial capo fretpads and doing some pretty cool things. Still, I really like this functionality and expect to keep the sliding pad on my capo. I’m sure the day will come when I use the Thalia on a guitar without matching the radius and a string will be a bit wonky. If I have the sliding fretpad on the guitar, it will be easy to nudge the capo while I’m playing and hopefully put things right again. But if I don’t want to slide, I can use a rubber fretpad that will stay put. Now that the tension is right, I expect to see some creative guitar players put the sliding action to great use.

CONCLUSION

As I stated at the beginning of this long-winded review (imagine the time spent on testing… good thing I’m home recovering from surgery), Chris effectively solved the issue with the excessive spring tension on the original. I was finally able to give version 2 a thorough testing and I like it. More than that, because of the way it looks, I love it. Once available I will probably buy a second so that I can have them set up differently for acoustic and electric guitars.

Last edited by DavidE; 03-01-2016 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 03-01-2016, 09:42 PM
DavidE DavidE is offline
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And the photos....






Last edited by DavidE; 03-01-2016 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 03-01-2016, 10:30 PM
DavidE DavidE is offline
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I just watched the Version 2.0 video that highlights some other changes that I wondered about, but couldn't confirm since I no longer have my version 1 capos.

The fretpad is longer so it fits wider necks.

The fretpad is thinner, so the capo opens wider and will fit thicker necks. As stated in my review, I have one neck so thick the capo would not go on.

The pad on the back of the neck now wraps around the end of the metal, so the guitar is better protected from contact with anything but rubber or teflon. I thought they changed something and now I know what.

They did change the length of the lever arm, but it's not immediately obvious to the eye. Overall, they say in the video that the new capo is 50% easier to squeeze than the original.

http://shop.thaliacapos.com/pages/whats-next
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Old 03-01-2016, 10:50 PM
North Bender North Bender is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidE View Post
... I think when you see the very short reviews posted by a couple of others who were asked to review V2, I think you can tell we took different approaches to our testing and how much detail, information and opinion to include in our reviews.
Nice job. But personally I think the reviews that Martin Maniac and I posted on the Thalia capo are immensely more readable and to the point and my photos may contain more information than 3 pages of description.

I wouldn't have written that if you hadn't mentioned our reviews and called them "very short".

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=420568
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Old 03-01-2016, 11:29 PM
DavidE DavidE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Bender View Post
Nice job. But personally I think the reviews that Martin Maniac and I posted on the Thalia capo are immensely more readable and to the point and my photos may contain more information than 3 pages of description.

I wouldn't have written that if you hadn't mentioned our reviews and called them "very short".

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=420568
Sorry you took offense. I guess it's all relative anyway and I was thinking of Martin's review more than yours when I said short. Yours was well done.

As for mine being immensely less readable, that's why I included headings. People can easily find answers to the specific questions they have.
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Old 03-02-2016, 02:49 AM
Yamaha Man Yamaha Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidE View Post
Sorry you took offense. I guess it's all relative anyway and I was thinking of Martin's review more than yours when I said short. Yours was well done.

As for mine being immensely less readable, that's why I included headings. People can easily find answers to the specific questions they have.
My reviews were short because I was busy giging out. My time is limited and I'm exhausted after a gig. My bottom line is I love the Thalia 2.0 capo and want to buy another so I can keep one on each of my guitars. They store nicely on the nut and are always in reach when needed. At my jam sessions, many of the players use capos, so we're constantly switching them around, the Thalia capo works very well in this situation. It's very easy to set it in place.
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Old 03-02-2016, 06:28 AM
DavidE DavidE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Maniac View Post
My reviews were short because I was busy giging out. My time is limited and I'm exhausted after a gig. My bottom line is I love the Thalia 2.0 capo and want to buy another so I can keep one on each of my guitars. They store nicely on the nut and are always in reach when needed. At my jam sessions, many of the players use capos, so we're constantly switching them around, the Thalia capo works very well in this situation. It's very easy to set it in place.
Again, different approaches. I had the time to do all the testing and write the long review because I'm home recovering from having a kidney removed. I'm leaving the house for the first time in a week and a half today to see my surgeon.

The bottom line is that the three of us independently came to the same conclusion; they fixed the main issues with version 1. More than that, they came up with a revised design that really works and could become your #1. It's more than just a pretty face!
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