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  #1  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:30 AM
Nahil.R Nahil.R is offline
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Default Neck Filling / Staining

I want to have a dark finish on a mahogany neck and was wondering which you do first, grain fill or stain?

One more question! .... Do you attach the fretboard before or after you set the neck angle? I'm confused ... sorry if this is a silly question.

Thanks in advance.

Nahil.

Last edited by Nahil.R; 10-18-2020 at 10:48 AM. Reason: Added a question.
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Old 10-18-2020, 10:03 AM
TaylorCocobolo TaylorCocobolo is offline
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You can mix stain with filler or buy a Behlen filler that is already color tinted. My favorite stains (dyes) are Lockwood stains. Water soluable or soluable in denatured alcohol. I typically seal with shellac prior to finishing which can also be tinted if you want it darker or richer stain.
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Old 10-18-2020, 10:48 AM
Nahil.R Nahil.R is offline
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Originally Posted by TaylorCocobolo View Post
You can mix stain with filler or buy a Behlen filler that is already color tinted. My favorite stains (dyes) are Lockwood stains. Water soluable or soluable in denatured alcohol. I typically seal with shellac prior to finishing which can also be tinted if you want it darker or richer stain.
Thanks Taylor!
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Old 10-18-2020, 12:12 PM
Shuksan Shuksan is offline
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Here's another option. I wanted the color of the mahogany neck to match the color of the rosewood body of the guitar in the pic below. I stained the neck with Behlen Solar-Lux stain (wiped on) and then pore filled with epoxy (Z-poxy). This is how the neck and body looked after applying the pore filler.

I glue the fretboard on after setting the neck angle.

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 10-18-2020, 12:15 PM
Nahil.R Nahil.R is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuksan View Post
Here's another option. I wanted the color of the mahogany neck to match the color of the rosewood body of the guitar in the pic below. I stained the neck with Behlen Solar-Lux stain (wiped on) and then pore filled with epoxy (Z-poxy). This is how the neck and body looked after applying the pore filler.

I glue the fretboard on after setting the neck angle.

[IMG][/IMG]
Wow that looks great and is sort of what I am aiming for. Thanks for the tips.

Nahil.
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  #6  
Old 10-18-2020, 12:35 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahil.R View Post
Do you attach the fretboard before or after you set the neck angle?
As I suggested in another discussion, novice builders are best off to follow a single plan that covers the sequence, rather than collect various methods and then attempt to figure out which one is best and how to integrate them.

Generally, in a two-piece construction, the neck angle is set prior to attaching the fretboard. It is much easier to do, particularly if one uses a method that requires the underside of the fingerboard in the area of the top be tapered to match the plane of the top. (It is easier to plane the underside of the fingerboard extension when the neck isn't attached. It is also easier to set the angle of the end of the neck without having the fingerboard attached.)
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Old 10-19-2020, 01:53 AM
Nahil.R Nahil.R is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
As I suggested in another discussion, novice builders are best off to follow a single plan that covers the sequence, rather than collect various methods and then attempt to figure out which one is best and how to integrate them.

Generally, in a two-piece construction, the neck angle is set prior to attaching the fretboard. It is much easier to do, particularly if one uses a method that requires the underside of the fingerboard in the area of the top be tapered to match the plane of the top. (It is easier to plane the underside of the fingerboard extension when the neck isn't attached. It is also easier to set the angle of the end of the neck without having the fingerboard attached.)

Thanks Charles, now that I think of it, it is clear how that would be the correct way to go about it.

Now I just have to finish routing the rabbets for the binding and purfling ... This part terrifies me (I'm very weary of putting a power tool to my work, I lack that confidence).

Once that is done I can move toward working out the tenon and mortise joint (I am using a bolt on system).

This is always the scariest part of the few builds I have done and it really stresses me out.

One final thing is that I hope to not glue the fretboard extension but have it lie flush against the top ... would any further requirements in my approach be needed to achieve that? or would following the same advice as above achieve my goals?

Thanks and sorry for the bombardment of questions

Nahil.
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  #8  
Old 10-19-2020, 04:44 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahil.R View Post
Now I just have to finish routing the rabbets for the binding and purfling ... This part terrifies me (I'm very weary of putting a power tool to my work, I lack that confidence).

Once that is done I can move toward working out the tenon and mortise joint (I am using a bolt on system).

This is always the scariest part of the few builds I have done and it really stresses me out.
You always have the option of cutting the rabbets with a chisel, purfling cutter/gramil and files/riflers.

I'm currently helping a friend build a classical guitar. He chose to simplify the binding to be a single ebony strip around the periphery, with no purfling, back strip or end graft. It makes the task much, much easier. In this case, black walnut back and sides, the simple ebony binding looks very nice.

Binding work is my least favourite part of instrument making.

You mentioned elsewhere that you are using the Stewmac router bit and bearings. As Howard mentioned, what method are you using to ensure the router stays perpendicular to the sides? Do you understand the issue involved and why one wants the router to stay perpendicular to the sides?

In the past, I have used a router without anything to keep it perpendicular to the sides. That works to remove the bulk of the wood but you then have to do a fair bit of chiseling to make the rabbet uniform in depth and width.

As for the mortise and tenon, don't reinvent the wheel. There are many methods that are chronicled in how to make the joint, including a simpler bolt-on butt joint.

Quote:
One final thing is that I hope to not glue the fretboard extension but have it lie flush against the top ...
With a standard neck/fingerboard arrangement, that isn't going to work. You can try it, buy I think you'll find that the fingerboard might have different ideas about staying rigid and flat. I think you'll also find that the notes of the un-glued fingerboard extension won't sound right.

Violin family instruments, with their cantilevered fingerboards, are a different animal. The fingerboards are far more rigid than a typical guitar arrangement.

Last edited by charles Tauber; 10-19-2020 at 04:50 AM.
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  #9  
Old 10-19-2020, 05:39 AM
Nahil.R Nahil.R is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
You always have the option of cutting the rabbets with a chisel, purfling cutter/gramil and files/riflers.

I'm currently helping a friend build a classical guitar. He chose to simplify the binding to be a single ebony strip around the periphery, with no purfling, back strip or end graft. It makes the task much, much easier. In this case, black walnut back and sides, the simple ebony binding looks very nice.

Binding work is my least favourite part of instrument making.

You mentioned elsewhere that you are using the Stewmac router bit and bearings. As Howard mentioned, what method are you using to ensure the router stays perpendicular to the sides? Do you understand the issue involved and why one wants the router to stay perpendicular to the sides?

In the past, I have used a router without anything to keep it perpendicular to the sides. That works to remove the bulk of the wood but you then have to do a fair bit of chiseling to make the rabbet uniform in depth and width.

As for the mortise and tenon, don't reinvent the wheel. There are many methods that are chronicled in how to make the joint, including a simpler bolt-on butt joint.



With a standard neck/fingerboard arrangement, that isn't going to work. You can try it, buy I think you'll find that the fingerboard might have different ideas about staying rigid and flat. I think you'll also find that the notes of the un-glued fingerboard extension won't sound right.

Violin family instruments, with their cantilevered fingerboards, are a different animal. The fingerboards are far more rigid than a typical guitar arrangement.

Thanks Charles, I actually have the LMI binding jig with body cradle and get the importance of it being perpendicular thanks.

I will be using a bolt on as well to simplify things and I guess will glue the fretboard extension as well .... this is such a nerve wracking stage (both binding/purfling and getting the neck to attach right!

I have been staring at the work for a few weeks now trying to gain the knowledge and confidence to proceed

Thanks for the guidance.

Cheers,

Nahil.
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  #10  
Old 10-26-2020, 08:07 AM
ClaptonWannabe2 ClaptonWannabe2 is offline
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With a standard neck/fingerboard arrangement, that isn't going to work. You can try it, buy I think you'll find that the fingerboard might have different ideas about staying rigid and flat. I think you'll also find that the notes of the un-glued fingerboard extension won't sound right.


The board would HAVE to create buzz, no?

I've considered this myself, but I assume the bottom of the board would vibrate against the body when played aggressively.
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