Wood guitars vs. composite

[Acousticado]

Most of the recent threads concerning carbon fiber guitars may suggest a love-fest among some members (Composite Acoustics in particular). This has me curious about how die-hard wood guitar fans feel about the composites. Are you curious enough to try them?

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

Most of the recent threads concerning carbon fiber guitars may suggest a love-fest among some members (Composite Acoustics in particular). This has me curious about how die-hard wood guitar fans feel about the composites. Are you curious enough to try them?

Hi Tom...
I'm always interested in new developments, so sure, I tried them.

Wasn't impressed.

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Tom...
I'm always interested in new developments, so sure, I tried them.

Wasn't impressed.

Thanks Larry. Given your extensive experience, if you've the time and inclination, I'm hoping to hear some reasons from those who prefer wood. Which have you tried? And recently?

Trust me, I'm not trying to make converts. I ask because I'm seriously considering buying a full-size CA after my recent purchase of the parlor-size Cargo where I'm personally pretty impressed. There are no dealers any where near me, but based on the Cargo, I'm inclined to take a chance. However, to do so, I'll probably have to sell my Taylor 814c -- my only quality wood acoustic and based on the cost of such a new Taylor, it'll be a long time before I'd be able to buy another.

So, the opinion of the die-hard wood guitar lovers is important to me as I contemplate my decision.

Thanks.

[Hodges_Guitars]

The differences in tonal qualities, including overtones and sub-tones is quite diverse with wood. Unfortunately, the carbon guitars just dont have all of the overtones that wood does. While it makes for a VERY playable and stable guitar, it sounds like a carbon guitar. Some people may grow to love that sound. They certainly have their place.

for me, I'm still enthralled with the differing tones and sounds of wood. There is something about the beauty of the work of nature that is appealing also.

[JasonA]

I like it all!

The CA guitars have a beautiful tone all their own. They are very lively and responsive, and the big plus being that even here in the desert I can leave one out without worrying about it.

Now... are they as good as the high end guitars I've had (Baranik, McKnight, Blanchard)? Not even close!

But, IMO, they are indeed better than a lot of midrange factory wood guitars I've had. Your results may vary.

[leeasam]

Originally Posted by Hodges_Guitars

The differences in tonal qualities, including overtones and sub-tones is quite diverse with wood. Unfortunately, the carbon guitars just dont have all of the overtones that wood does. While it makes for a VERY playable and stable guitar, it sounds like a carbon guitar. Some people may grow to love that sound. They certainly have their place.

for me, I'm still enthralled with the differing tones and sounds of wood. There is something about the beauty of the work of nature that is appealing also.

while I agree with wood giving a large variaty of overtones IMO the vast majority of those tones suck. I have done on this website two recordings of my

yTaylor 814CE I had and my GX Performer and told no one which was which and more got it WRONG than right and many liked the GX better. I have not played rainsongs so I can not speak for them but from what I read and hear the RS and the CA guitars are totally different animals.

Lee

[TjthePhD]

Originally Posted by JasonA

But, IMO, they are indeed better than a lot of midrange factory wood guitars I've had.

+1 to that. I haven't played a CA, but I did get the chance to play a Rainsong for a while, and I was impressed with what it offered.

However, I think the sum of what a lot of people are saying here may be this: composite guitars are sort of your industrial revolution, interchangeable parts, Ford Model T type of guitar. You are pretty much assured of a good standard sound, feel, and quality, but the guitars will likely be lacking in individual personality. Higher-end wooden guitars all seem to have their own tone and personality, even identical models from the same maker made a month apart.

And I'm not knocking the composite guitars, either. Good tone is good tone, and their durability for those who play out a lot is certainly a plus, though I can't say as I have ever seen one on stage. It's just more about what you want out of a guitar.

As I have said elsewhere on this forum, I knew a guy in DC who could play the dickens out of a guitar. And the guitar he played, though he could afford much more, was his "chipboard Takamine" (his words). So go with what makes you happy.

[rforman15]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

Most of the recent threads concerning carbon fiber guitars may suggest a love-fest among some members (Composite Acoustics in particular). This has me curious about how die-hard wood guitar fans feel about the composites. Are you curious enough to try them?

I tried a couple of Rainsongs, years ago, and liked them very much. I hear the CA guitars are even better. I don't know that they sound like wood, but that's cool, I like a modern tone. I'd like to see a carbon fiber guitar mocked up to look like wood, I'd like to see what it would look like. Also, I am totally uninterested in any acoustic guitar with onboard electronics, doesn't interest me. Almost all the Rainsongs and CA guitars seem to have electronics built in. I don't want an equalizer cut into the side of my guitar (wood or otherwise) and I don't want a cutaway, it's like cutting an appendage. I could be persuaded, but the organic feel, sound, and look of wood is very appealing, having an almost spiritual or mystical aesthetic. I just don't see the draw for a carbon fiber guitar, it has to be better than a regular guitar and it only beats a regular guitar in the area of stability and my wood guitars are stable enough, and maybe the instability of the wood adds to the character. and they aren't inexpensive either, so in the end what is the appeal of a carbon fiber guitar?

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

Thanks Larry. Given your extensive experience, if you've the time and inclination, I'm hoping to hear some reasons from those who prefer wood. Which have you tried? And recently?

Hi Acousticado...
I've only played 5 different kinds of composite guitars (as in brands), and in every case, they were sturdy enough, and well built. Make that 6 if you count the Ovation composite Adamas models I played over the years since they were introduced, the last being 2 years ago (a student owns one and has tried repeatedly to sell it for 2 years now).

All I played were acoustic 6 string with no classical guitars in the mix. And I have played fairly current models of the existing (surviving) brands...certainly within the past 2 years.

• Wechter? It was a thin-body, double cutaway, 6 string acoustic fully composite and I think it was Wechter...have not seen these lately.
• Rainsong
• CA
• Birk, Legacy (not sure really what it was) - not impressed
• Pimental

Two were thin body, but the rest were modeled either after Dreadnaughts or medium sized body instruments. I will not comment on the Adamas (the 6th one I referred to) other than to say it will be hard for my student/friend to sell his and even recover 1/3 of what he paid. It is not a stellar sounding or very good playing instrument...though cosmetically it is very nice looking.

None of the 5 more conventional designed composites satisfied the test of a wide enough dynamic range; they did not sound good at soft volumes (thin and under volumed) but sounded fine at medium loud to very loud volumes. I wanted to like them (still do feel they have a place in the guitar arena).

None of them had the sense of power I find in a well built Rosewood/Cedar mini-jumbo, jumbo or dreadnaught. None of them exhibit the acoustic subtleties I experience when playing wooden instruments...they were extremely uniform from guitar to guitar. None of them had the overtones and sparkle of a fine Mahogany/Spruce or Rosewood/Spruce fingerstyle guitar.

The tension of strings over the soundhole was much more tense than I am accustomed to with well setup acoustics, even when the action of the composites was low and the string weight only .012 (as opposed to .013).

None of them had a satisfying acoustic tone to me. I prefer woody sounding guitars. The composite guitars had no character to their sound...very neutral. There was no doubt they were acoustic guitars, but none had a distinguished tone. The only differences between the sound of different models within a particular brand to my ear was which frequency ranges were emphasized.

I think the last major one I have not tried yet is the CA Cargo.

Let me say, that if I were going to be needing an instrument which could survive long term harsh conditions (jungle, desert, or arctic climates), a composite would be my choice of instrument to play there. That would be the only use I could forsee needing one on a personal level.

My issues have nothing to do with playability or intonation, all except one (which no longer is made) did fine in that regard.

Hope this helps...I'm really not that familiar with them since playing a number of them and deciding I have no interest in them.

[brahmz118]

Originally Posted by Hodges_Guitars

Unfortunately, the carbon guitars just dont have all of the overtones that wood does.

RainSong states the opposite on their website -- that the dampening properties of wood actually kill some of the natural overtones. The 'woody' sound is the sound of missing overtones. Carbon fiber guitars, on the other hand, are often described as 'shimmery' because they retain more of those overtone frequencies.

CA seems to agree with this explanation to some extent, as they claim their bracing isn't for structural support, but to control overtones.

This doesn't mean that one sounds better than the other. Why not embrace both? I don't see any reason to look down at any guitar that has achieved a distinctive sound, whether it's a steel National, a fiberglass Beltona, or a graphite RainSong or CA. It's just another color in the grand tonal palette. My current favorite guitar is an all-solid wood archtop that I just acquired. But my RainSong still moves me with its beauty every time I play it.

[SteveS]

Oops.........

[TjthePhD]

Originally Posted by brahmz118

RainSong states the opposite on their website -- that the dampening properties of wood actually kill some of the natural overtones. The 'woody' sound is the sound of missing overtones. Carbon fiber guitars, on the other hand, are often described as 'shimmery' because they retain more of those overtone frequencies.

Really? A guitar maker said something in favor of their particular style of guitar on their web site? Well, then ...














All said only in fun.

[brahmz118]

Originally Posted by TjthePhD

Really? A guitar maker said something in favor of their particular style of guitar on their web site? Well, then ...














All said only in fun.

The 'in favor' part is a misinterpretation of my quote.

[TjthePhD]

Again, as I noted in my original post, I said it only in fun.

[thistle]

I'd like to see a carbon fiber guitar mocked up to look like wood,

Me too - I know I should just accept and embrace them for what they are but I don't want to play a guitar that looks like Darth Vader.

I'm fine with wood patterned HPL. I think wood patterned carbon fibre would be much more easily accepted by traditionalists like me.