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  #31  
Old 11-10-2016, 08:39 AM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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The Nuages are gypsy jazz strings, won't sound good on the Loar.

Try the monel or 80/20's.

Congrats. Fun guitars. Owned one for a year, unfortunately the neck shape would hurt my hand after playing for a while. But it was a great guitar.
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  #32  
Old 11-10-2016, 08:52 AM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Originally Posted by tdq View Post
I have a Loar 700. I love it. The action was very high so I gave it a fairly radical sanding on the bridge, but after that, I really enjoy playing it and love the sound for jazz, fingerpicking, flatpicking and "choppy" strumming...
Most players who are not hardcore archtop aficionados are unaware of the need for absolutely correct neck geometry in these instruments - far more so than in any flattop; I hate to be the bearer of potential bad news, but as an archtop player since the early-60's it sounds like you've got issues here. Unlike flattop instruments that typically come with a non-adjustable bridge (other than the Gibson debacle), an archtop bridge is designed to provide a range of adjustment from electric-guitar low (eat your heart out, Bob T. ) to Freddie Green two-inches-off-the-fingerboard, and the only reason to sand the bottom (a job that should be reserved for a tech who really knows what he/she is doing, BTW) is to fit the base to the contour of the top - very important if you expect to get the most out your instrument; in addition, just as with a thinned bridge on a flattop you're going to be sacrificing a good deal of tone/volume when you alter mass - and given that archtops are the highly-idiosyncratic beasts they are, in a far-less-predictable manner IME...

Found this piece of advice you might appreciate, over on the Archtop forum:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
...I've owned a couple of Loar archtops, so I'd second the suggestion to get it set up as well as possible - bridge seating, placement for intonation, and tailpiece clearance from the body as Loar neck angles tend to be very shallow...
My thoughts: try to score an exact duplicate bridge (either from the company or a reputable outside source - I wouldn't go with the generic StewMac bridges in this case), and take your guitar to either a tech with archtop experience (you'd be surprised how many first-rate flattop/electric people don't know squat about what makes an archtop tick) or an orchestral-string luthier for a proper fitting (routine work for the latter, BTW - many violin-family players have "summer" and "winter" bridges); if you still have issues I'd say you're looking at a warranty claim, so make sure that your tech (I'd also get a second opinion, if possible) is willing to state in writing - things can get somewhat testy when it comes to such matters - that you're dealing with an incorrectly-set neck and not just the usual escape clause of "action preference"...
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Last edited by Steve DeRosa; 11-10-2016 at 09:33 AM. Reason: Additional information
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  #33  
Old 11-10-2016, 10:10 AM
PiousDevil PiousDevil is offline
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Now I have to get a gypsy jazz guitar to put these nuage strings on
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  #34  
Old 11-10-2016, 10:30 AM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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- and the problem is...?
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  #35  
Old 11-10-2016, 11:10 AM
PiousDevil PiousDevil is offline
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- and the problem is...?
I don't know where to start, of course
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  #36  
Old 11-10-2016, 03:05 PM
Backcountry Backcountry is offline
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Check out Rob McKillop's site.

mr. beaumont turned me onto the Mel Bay book "Masters of the Plectrum Guitar" which has a gazillion tunes that are perfect for acoustic archtops.
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  #37  
Old 11-10-2016, 06:12 PM
tdq tdq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
Most players who are not hardcore archtop aficionados are unaware of the need for absolutely correct neck geometry in these instruments - far more so than in any flattop; I hate to be the bearer of potential bad news, but as an archtop player since the early-60's it sounds like you've got issues here. Unlike flattop instruments that typically come with a non-adjustable bridge (other than the Gibson debacle), an archtop bridge is designed to provide a range of adjustment from electric-guitar low (eat your heart out, Bob T. ) to Freddie Green two-inches-off-the-fingerboard, and the only reason to sand the bottom (a job that should be reserved for a tech who really knows what he/she is doing, BTW) is to fit the base to the contour of the top - very important if you expect to get the most out your instrument; in addition, just as with a thinned bridge on a flattop you're going to be sacrificing a good deal of tone/volume when you alter mass - and given that archtops are the highly-idiosyncratic beasts they are, in a far-less-predictable manner IME...
The contact remains as designed - I didn't sand the bottom of the bridge - I took some off the top part - the part that holds the saddle - so the screws weren't holding it so high. As for the other stuff, well, an hardcore archtop aficionado might have issues but it works well for me.
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  #38  
Old 11-10-2016, 07:26 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdq View Post
The contact remains as designed - I didn't sand the bottom of the bridge - I took some off the top part - the part that holds the saddle - so the screws weren't holding it so high. As for the other stuff, well, an hardcore archtop aficionado might have issues but it works well for me.
A couple points of clarification here:
  • What I said about the fitment of the bridge base to the top of the guitar falls under the heading of routine setup for any archtop owner - as much so as trussrod adjustment, nut slot filing, intonation, and a fret-level check and block-sand; just as I'm sure you wouldn't tolerate the glued bridge on one of your flattops pulling away from the top, or bridge pins that didn't seat properly, the bridge base needs to be seated flush with the top at all points for it to function correctly - not always the case as it comes from the factory...
  • Decreasing the range of adjustment on an archtop bridge is the approximate equivalent of lowering the saddle of a flattop to the point where it's hair-thin, to bring the action into (or as close as possible to) spec; that fine-looking instrument you're holding in your hands was once a tree (or two or three), and it's simply the nature of the beast that major adjustments will be needed at some point down the line - just ask any long-term Martin owner if he/she has had (or is in need of) a neck reset. In a nutshell, you've given yourself no margin for error and nowhere to go when (not if) that day comes - and I sincerely doubt you'd be willing to simply scrap an instrument of this type...
  • Give some guys a Dremel, a hammer, a can of WD-40, and a tube of epoxy and they can "fix" just about anything (I had a former bud who used to do his own gunsmithing just this way - I'll let you guess why I use the term "former"); I also spent much of one winter in the late-70's riding around with the rear windows of my car open, as the heater/defroster didn't work, I didn't have the money for repairs, and I needed to keep the back glass from frosting over in the name of continued survival in NYC traffic . The bottom line here is that one can work around or jerry-rig a solution to almost any problem - the world's armies have had specialists in this area for millennia; difference is that, as I'm sure you're aware, you've got a fine instrument there, albeit one that has somewhat different care-&-feeding requirements than what you may be accustomed to - why would you settle for less than what it really needs to perform at its best, in the name of convenience...?
Peace out...
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  #39  
Old 11-10-2016, 11:24 PM
Spook Spook is offline
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Beautiful guitar. There are a lot of people who really like the sound of these.

Agree with others: Get a good set up. It's worth it. If you're mechanically inclined you can learn to do your own though getting a nut right takes some patience and tools. I've gone as far as leveling my own frets. Gratifying if you like that sort of thing.

Strings: 80/20's are brighter to my ears. Phosphor bronze warmer. Usually use phosphor bronze because maple archtops are quite bright enough already. Using monel's on one archtop now but jury is still out. I like .013's on some, .012's on others. The guitar will usually tell you which it likes. All things being equal I favor .013's.

Chinese archtops may have been the dark side some years back. Not so much any more. Too many good guitars have come out of China at affordable prices for anybody to argue with.
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  #40  
Old 11-12-2016, 01:13 PM
Spook Spook is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
I had a former bud who used to do his own gunsmithing just this way - I'll let you guess why I use the term "former"
Working on guns has some similarity to guitars in that amateurs can do some work on their own. I have several M4's and they are like lego's. You can easily swap anything with standardized parts using hand tools. However with handguns, grips and maybe sights are about it. Well, except for the 1911's but, unlike the AR15 platform, those parts require fitment. Some things, like a laser grip on my concealed carry, are as easy as swapping strings. But getting a better trigger pull will take some new skills and it's tempting to just drop it off at the smith.

There are several correlations to guitars: files, geometry, a bench, and patience. Some things you can't undo and it takes time to build the confidence to do those tasks. Still, it's incremental and gratifying.
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  #41  
Old 11-12-2016, 03:32 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Originally Posted by Spook View Post
Working on guns has some similarity to guitars in that amateurs can do some work on their own...However with handguns, grips and maybe sights are about it...getting a better trigger pull will take some new skills and it's tempting to just drop it off at the smith...Some things you can't undo and it takes time to build the confidence to do those tasks...
Done grip swaps myself - just a mater of some basic woodworking skills in most cases - but this guy wasn't exactly the brightest light in the chandelier, and he specialized in what Fender Mustang owners like to refer to as "deep editing"; got to a point where I didn't want to be anywhere near him or his Frankenguns (not to mention his handload-of-the-week) - figured it was just a matter of time before the fertilizer hit the HVAC...
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  #42  
Old 11-12-2016, 08:08 PM
Spook Spook is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
Done grip swaps myself - just a mater of some basic woodworking skills in most cases - but this guy wasn't exactly the brightest light in the chandelier, and he specialized in what Fender Mustang owners like to refer to as "deep editing"; got to a point where I didn't want to be anywhere near him or his Frankenguns (not to mention his handload-of-the-week) - figured it was just a matter of time before the fertilizer hit the HVAC...
Ha.. 'deep editing'. Had not heard that one before.

Did I mention I never fire someone else's handloads or stand near them at the range? Not a fan of frankenguns either. Scopes and grips mostly though I did do some 1911 stuff that required fitting. Gotta admit I like working on guitars quite a lot more than cars, guns, house, or anything else involving hand tools. Something about how it plays when you get everything sorted.
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