Advantages of stereo matched pair?

[bradeasley]

With regards to recording acoustic guitar primarily in a traditional bluegrass context, what are the advantages to using a stereo matched pair of mics? In particular, I'm asking about a stereo pair of the same mic as opposed to a pair of different microphones.

Example (using Neumann models for reference):

How would a pair of KM84's sound as opposed to a KM84 and a U47/67/87 if all other variables were the same (mic position, etc.)? Why might the matched pair be preferable in this context?

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by bradeasley

With regards to recording acoustic guitar primarily in a traditional bluegrass context, what are the advantages to using a stereo matched pair of mics? In particular, I'm asking about a stereo pair of the same mic as opposed to a pair of different microphones.

Example (using Neumann models for reference):

How would a pair of KM84's sound as opposed to a KM84 and a U47/67/87 if all other variables were the same (mic position, etc.)? Why might the matched pair be preferable in this context?

Humm ? Well first off, traditional Bluegrass was/is often recorded on a single LDC

But in answer to your question objectively there is no "advantage" per. se' to a "Matched pair" of mics. The only thing (or possible 'advantage") might be that a matched pair brings to the table is that the frequency response is going to be very close so theoretically it might be easier (or just quicker) to mix accurately

The real question ask is --Is a matched pair going to be more desirable ? And the answer is YES --NO--MAYBE In other words it is far to subjective and depends entirely on what sound one is after.
Many renowned professional engineers specifically choose different mics to record acoustic guitar and at the same time many choose matched pairs. ..It a big wonderful world out there.

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by bradeasley

With regards to recording acoustic guitar primarily in a traditional bluegrass context, what are the advantages to using a stereo matched pair of mics? In particular, I'm asking about a stereo pair of the same mic as opposed to a pair of different microphones.

Example (using Neumann models for reference):

How would a pair of KM84's sound as opposed to a KM84 and a U47/67/87 if all other variables were the same (mic position, etc.)? Why might the matched pair be preferable in this context?

In a band mix where the guitar is not the featured instrument I wouldn't bother with a matched pair. When I hear Bluegrass, that's the context I expect, but there are others here who probably know more and better than me.

I sometimes record basic tracks with an acoustic guitar with a matched spaced pair, but as the arrangement grows or I mix later I just throw out one track and keep the one with the more "aimed at the joint of the neck and body" mic.

[AcousticDreams]

As with all things, there is no best, only what is best for you. In this case, it is all about the desired effect you wish.

Some claim the The advantages of an SDC are faster response times. The smaller diaphragm moves faster capturing the transients more accurately. A Large diaphragm capsule being larger, takes more energy to move. Some claim this slightly slower response time with larger capsules, allows the focus of the sound on the body, with less emphasis on the transients.

The Matched pair theory: some claiming that instead of tailoring the sound, you are indeed representing the true stereo field of what a guitar would sound like, more accurately.

We are now in a whole new world of the Acoustic Guitar sound. So many new woods being used, so many innovations in bracing and design. For some the acoustic guitar has reached a new universes of possible sounds.

For those who feel their guitar is perfect in its sound and their playing, they might want to represent the guitar the most accurately. For a solo Finger stye player, a matched pair might give them the chance to do so.

For those who only cares about how the guitar's voice stands out in a mix(Guitar, voice, drums, bass) , a combination of SDC & LDC or even Ribbon microphone, might be best. Or for those that are not totally happy with the sound of their guitar, altering the sound through Type of microphones used, might be best.

While I am very happy with the sound I am getting with a Matched SCD stereo pair, I still like experimenting. So I might introduce a Third - LDC microphone to the mix. But then again, the more you add the more chances you have to muc up the mix as well. Phase issues, along with other factors, can be introduced. Thus more, actually becomes less.

And as KevWind pointed out, the single microphone, which was standard for many years, there are also advantages. No possibility of phase issues. And always worked in a Mono mix. There are still some engineers who strongly emphasize the use of a single microphone.

Which all leads back to there is no right or wrong...only the desired effect you wish.

[jim1960]

We had a discussion here about matched pairs not too long ago: Matched Pairs

[bradeasley]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Humm ? Well first off, traditional Bluegrass was/is often recorded on a single LDC

But in answer to your question objectively there is no "advantage" per. se' to a "Matched pair" of mics. The only thing (or possible 'advantage") might be that a matched pair brings to the table is that the frequency response is going to be very close so theoretically it might be easier (or just quicker) to mix accurately

The real question ask is --Is a matched pair going to be more desirable ? And the answer is YES --NO--MAYBE In other words it is far to subjective and depends entirely on what sound one is after.
Many renowned professional engineers specifically choose different mics to record acoustic guitar and at the same time many choose matched pairs. ..It a big wonderful world out there.

Thank you for the response. Yes, I'm clear on the historical recording of bluegrass on a single mic. I meant the context would be modern recording of acoustic instruments in the style and instrumentation format of traditional bluegrass. More musical style than trying to replicate the historical recording style.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by bradeasley

Thank you for the response. Yes, I'm clear on the historical recording of bluegrass on a single mic. I meant the context would be modern recording of acoustic instruments in the style and instrumentation format of traditional bluegrass. More musical style than trying to replicate the historical recording style.

If you're asking are there microphones that are particularly styled for any genre, including bluegrass, then no. Every recording engineer is going to have their own preferences for microphones.

[Glennwillow]

I enjoyed reading the "matched pair" thread again that Jim referenced. As far as responses to the OP's question, I thought KevWind's response was pretty much right on.

I have my mics set up, plugged in, and ready to go in my studio so that when it's time to record I don't have to mess around much. These days I am using a "matched pair" of Warm Audio WA-84 SDC mics, which I like a great deal. Sometimes I record something that is just guitar or just one voice and one guitar, and in those situations, using two mics, one to the left and one to the right of the guitar, are really helpful at establishing a stereo field that sounds good through both speakers and headphones.

When I am recording more than one guitar or more than one instrument, I still record with the same two mics located the same way around the guitar. I'm a person who does not like to experiment -- once I find what I consider the right answer, I use that formula over and over again. Because I want to get the music down as quickly, easily, and comfortably as possible.

However, in a multi-track, ensemble recording, I may often double track the main acoustic guitar and pan the two mics for one recording full right and the other recording panned full left in the mix. With modern digital recording, the number of tracks used are rarely an issue (that is, there are way more tracks available than I will ever need), and because I have things already set up in my studio, I can just sit down and record and not be messing around obsessing about details that few will ever hear or appreciate. I also appreciate the fuller sound from using two mics even with both L and R mics mixed together on one side or the other of the stereo spectrum.

I have used one SDC and one LDC mic for guitar recording in the past, and that is certainly a good sound. However, to my ears, I like the slight, extra sparkle that SDC mics bring to guitar recording, I'm guessing because of their very slightly better transient response compared to a larger LDC mic.

On the question of matched mics, I have a pair of Audio Technica AT4050 LDC mics that I purchased at separate times, so technically speaking, they are not really "matched." I cannot hear the difference from one to the other, and while my ears, I'm sure, are less than perfect, for my uses I'm not sure that matched pairs of mics matter very much. As others have said, quality control for good quality mics like these is so good that the variation in response is going to be very slight and probably inaudible to most people.

I hope all this adds to the discussion a little.

- Glenn

[jim1960]

"Matched pair" vs "A pair of..."

I think the term "matched pair" is being incorrectly used in this thread. In microphone nomenclature, the term "matched pair" refers to mics that have been tuned to be as closely sonically identical as possible or to have come off the assembly line sequentially (in which case the sonic alignment is presumed but usually not confirmed).

If one has two microphones, same make and model, one doesn't necessarily have a "matched pair." In that case, you more accurately have "a pair of" whatever mic it is.

[bradeasley]

Ok, I'll try to reframe the topic.

Setup:
Let's say you want to record a bluegrass band that has a fairly traditional style/sound. You current have a few assorted mics. Some LDCs, an SDC, and some dynamics. You don't have any 2 of the same condenser mic, and you're recording on a limited home recording setup and budget.

Is there any reason to consider purchasing a pair of the same microphone (matched or not, just the same make and model) such as a pair of SDCs for the sole purpose of micing a single acoustic guitar? Would it benefit how that instrument sounds in that mix context? Could a similar, albeit slightly different, result be achieved by micing with 2 different mics?

I'm just weighing the pros and cons of budgeting for more mics versus upgrading interfaces, but I'm trying to isolate the 2 topics so that the decision isn't influenced by the other.

[min7b5]

Originally Posted by bradeasley

..I'm clear on the historical recording of bluegrass on a single mic...

I think if you're looking for something more than the traditional single mic for ensemble recording, looking at muiltiable mono tracks is probably what you want. In which case having the strongest mic type for each instrument seems smart.

I'm working on my third flatpicking duo album right now where we're both playing live in the same space, and in that case there's certainly no downside to using a matched pair of the same microphone. Maybe if I was making a solo bluegrass track, ala David Grier or something, then I'd prefer a pair. But doesn't have to be... I guess I'm not clearing up much here My own bottom line is that I personally would think about several mono tracks for a band (played together live though) as I prefer the closed mic'd sound, the ability to have a little more control over the individual instrument tones, and to be able to place things in a mix. But maybe for a duo using a pair of the same mic as stereo track.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by bradeasley

Thank you for the response. Yes, I'm clear on the historical recording of bluegrass on a single mic. I meant the context would be modern recording of acoustic instruments in the style and instrumentation format of traditional bluegrass. More musical style than trying to replicate the historical recording style.

In almost every scenario I find mixing a stereo mic'd guitar, in any band situation (Bluegrass or otherwise), almost always problematic. Of course there can be some exceptions but as a rule it adds a layer of challenges. That of course is decidedly not so for recording solo acoustic guitar where stereo mic can be more pleasing and ultimately fairly easy to mix. The live performance Bluegrass Dance and particularly the tried and true Bluegrass single mic recording techniques have as much to do with mix-down as it does adhering to any traditional lure.

As to the original question, I can't personally imagine spending extra on a stereo matched pair or even two of the same models and making any significant audio difference. That's getting into the territory of how good (or even great) your room might be. Left to the average project studio room, placement, trial and error, and patience trump two similar microphones. The average project studio has enough sonic anomalies to render matched, or same model mics pretty inaudible.

Just my 2 cents

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by bradeasley

Ok, I'll try to reframe the topic.

Setup:
Let's say you want to record a bluegrass band that has a fairly traditional style/sound. You current have a few assorted mics. Some LDCs, an SDC, and some dynamics. You don't have any 2 of the same condenser mic, and you're recording on a limited home recording setup and budget.

Is there any reason to consider purchasing a pair of the same microphone (matched or not, just the same make and model) such as a pair of SDCs for the sole purpose of micing a single acoustic guitar? Would it benefit how that instrument sounds in that mix context? Could a similar, albeit slightly different, result be achieved by micing with 2 different mics?

I'm just weighing the pros and cons of budgeting for more mics versus upgrading interfaces, but I'm trying to isolate the 2 topics so that the decision isn't influenced by the other.

My opinion is that if you already have some good quality LDC and SDC microphones, I would suggest using what you have. I really don't think you will hear any significant difference between various good condenser mics vs a matched pair of SDCs.

I think this is especially true in the context of a bluegrass recording where the guitar sound is going to mixed in with other acoustic instruments. Any subtleties are going to be lost in the mix of instruments, I think.

Just my 2 cents.

- Glenn

[bradeasley]

Originally Posted by min7b5

I think if you're looking for something more than the traditional single mic for ensemble recording, looking at muiltiable mono tracks is probably what you want. In which case having the strongest mic for each instrument seems smart.

I'm working on my third flatpicking duo album right now where we're both playing live in the same space, and in that case there's certainly no downside to using a matched pair of the same microphone. Maybe if I was making a solo bluegrass track, ala David Grier or something, then I'd prefer a pair. But doesn't have to be... I guess I'm not clearing up much here

I guess bottom line is that I personally would think about several mono tracks for a band as I prefer the closed mic'd sound, the ability to have a little more control over the individual instrument tones, and to be able to place things in a mix. But maybe for a duo using a pair of the same mic as stereo track.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I have limited experience with the recording side of things. I may be overthinking the matter. It's likely that a single mic for on each instrument would be sufficient. Just making sure that there isn't some magic mojo to be had in a stereo pair that would be the difference between a professional and amateur sounding recording.

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

My opinion is that if you already have some good quality LDC and SDC microphones, I would suggest using what you have. I really don't think you will hear any significant difference between various good condenser mics vs a matched pair of SDCs.

- Glenn

That's my experience too. Couple this with Joseph Hanna's comment about the typical project studio having all sorts of anomalies, a matched pair seems like a waste of money to me unless money is not an issue.

I would rather have two good mics that have different sensitivies and characteristics in order to have a more versitile collection. And the small diaphram mics being better than large diaphram mics for acoustic guitar I think is, in part, a myth. In my experience itt really depends on the mic.