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  #1  
Old 11-28-2020, 01:27 PM
ozgolath ozgolath is offline
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Default Fret-buzz after setup - technique or bad luthier?

Hi guys the title explains it.
Im a newbie, just started playing in April 2020. My Martin D18 had extremely high action so took it luthier the other days after 4 months of playing. The guy lowered the action considerably but I experienced quite a bit of fret buzz that I can mostly avoid if i press hard enough. However, at 10 to 12th frets of the lowest 3 strings (D to lowE), a slight buzz persists.
Even though I've moved the truss rod to both extremes - the buzz may change a fret of two but remains. Here's a video demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmnzgQzQ-RE

I showed it to the luthier and he is convinced its my technique, since he has 10+ years of doing this stuff
Can anyone spot what im doing wrong with my strumming?
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Old 11-28-2020, 03:34 PM
D. Churchland D. Churchland is offline
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Delete please
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  #3  
Old 11-28-2020, 06:33 PM
mirwa mirwa is offline
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Your not hitting those strings anywhere near hard enough to make them buzz at a low action height

Its straight up IMO a bad setup, a setup takes into consideration the guitar and all of its nuances and your style as a player.

To confirm its not an underlyjng fret issue (which i suspect it is) take a credit card out of your wallet and sit the edge of the card over three frets (only three frets not four or five) one before and one after the fretted note your checking see if it rocks repeat this for every playing position up the board, if it rocks then it was not levelled correctly

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Old 11-28-2020, 09:03 PM
RoyBoy RoyBoy is offline
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You have described the action as "extremely high" and "significantly lowered" but without giving measurements it's hard to tell how far out of spec they were/are. It may be that the ideal setting will be somewhere between the two.

If the first 9 frets fret cleanly and you want the action as low as it is now, your only solution will be to have the frets leveled, crowned, and polished- at considerable expense.

To be fair, I've heard that Martin dreads go out the door with relatively high action because typical buyers are bluegrass/country players who like the volume that comes with higher action. And it's relatively quick and easy to lower action, raising it- not so much.
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Old 11-29-2020, 02:45 AM
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I recommend going back to the technician that did the setup, at least as the 1st step. I agree you are not causing the buzz which is still there to an extent using your thumb instead of the pick.

Diagnosis on line is more guesswork than science - especially without measurements. Could it be that some time has passed since the setup and the guitar is in a low humidity environment? This would in time tend to reduce action and exacerbate an already marginal situation.

Your comment that you have adjusted the truss-rod to both extremes is rather worrying...
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Old 11-29-2020, 03:44 AM
nikpearson nikpearson is offline
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Default Shouldn’t be buzzing like that!

The setup isn’t correct.

Adjusting the truss rod without understanding exactly what you’re doing is never a good idea. Most adjustments only involve small changes of 1/4 turn or less either way.

My best guess is that one or more of the following is the issue:

1) The action is simply too low. Some measurements would help here. What is the distance between the bottom of the string and the top of the 12th fret? This can be taken with a steel rule or specialist string height gauge. It’s not that uncommon for actions to be set too low for typical the steel-string player in pursuit of ‘as low as it will go’.

2) There is too much neck relief. Is there any fret buzz on the lowest frets 1-5?

3) The frets are not level.

The first two are quick and easy for a competent tech or luthier to resolve. Fret levelling is more involved and is not usually included in a standard setup. That said any decent luthier/tech would have identified this as an issue and explained what is involved to remedy the issue.

At this point I’d suggest taking it to another person. You could go back to the person who did the setup, but the work done (or not done) to date suggests they are not up to the job.

The good news is that the problem can be easily resolved.
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Old 11-29-2020, 05:40 AM
Robin, Wales Robin, Wales is offline
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Default Yep - that buzz shouldn't be there.

Mmm... There is a lot to unpack here.

The bottom line is that you should not be getting buzzing like that from your guitar from the 9th to 12th fret. If it stops buzzing after the 12th fret and before the 10th then we possibly have another issue.

Firstly, how did you end up with a Martin D18 as your first guitar? And is it left-handed or is the video mirrored? Was it new or second hand?

If it was second hand and had a high action when you bought it, and now with the saddle lowered it is buzzing 10th to 12th, it suggest that the guitar has a "ski jump" where the fretboard crosses the body after the 14 fret. This is easy to check - sight down the neck and see if the fretboard visibly kicks up where it crosses the body. Unfortunately this is not an easy fix as it may mean a neck reset. If there is no visible "ski jump" then you may have a high fret that's causing the issue combined with a saddle that's now too low.

If the guitar was new in April or second hand from a shop with a warrantee, then they should sort out the issue for you.

Whoever did the set-up for you should be able to spot if the guitar has a geometry issue and perhaps this is the first place to start.
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Old 11-29-2020, 06:12 AM
ozgolath ozgolath is offline
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Thanks for the responses.
I bought the Martin 3months after starting coz i knew this hobby was gona stick., I am left handed (regrettably now, since its a pain in the *** to find and test these guitars). I have tyo say it plays better on the first 5 or 6 frets and loud enough. its only on the higher frets that i start noticing the buzz. And only on the thicker 3 strings.
I am unable to play loud like i did before however, on any fret so i guess the guy went too low. When i got it back and mentiohed it he said that if i wanted the action raised i could DIY it by simply tweaking the truss rod a little and thats what he'd do if i took it back anyway. I have done that and create a bit more neck relief but still getting buzz. I fear if i go any further with the truss rod i might break the neck so i;'ve stopped with a gap about the thickness of a business card below the 6th fret to measure relief (while the 1st and 14th frets are clamped)

I have ordered fret measurement tools and will hopefully have more specific measurements at hand soon.

Unfortunately the luthier is convinced its my 'lack of technique' rather than the setup, himself being unable to play since he's right handed. Once I have measurement I willl go back to him or find another person.

Last edited by ozgolath; 11-29-2020 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 11-29-2020, 08:14 AM
mirwa mirwa is offline
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Find another person, any tech that saids he will raise the action up for you the client by adjusting the truss rod is not a tech

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Old 11-29-2020, 12:29 PM
MThomson MThomson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozgolath View Post
Unfortunately the luthier is convinced its my 'lack of technique' rather than the setup, himself being unable to play since he's right handed. Once I have measurement I willl go back to him or find another person.
This is a pile of arrant nonsense. It's hardly the most difficult thing in the world to flip the guitar over and fret a string to test for buzz. Go somewhere else. He's taken your money and doesn't care about getting it right for you. Hope you find someone to get it sorted in a way that suits you.
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Old 11-29-2020, 06:52 PM
ozgolath ozgolath is offline
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The action of the low E at 12th fret is roughly 2mm (i can just slip 2 .8mm picks underneath), probably less ( I didnt capo first fret)

I've decided to DIY it realising its actually quite simple: I've ordered Martin bone saddle, took out this saddle and its about 8mm tall. If i sand down the new saddle so it gives me about 1/2 mm extra action at 12fret, it should be right. I dont think the nut needs replacing, I do get some buzz if i open pick low E very rough but that'll do for now. A bit nervous about experimenting on a Martin D18, but I guess i cant do irreparable dmg if i leave the truss rod (hair-breadth relief currently) as is, and only play with the nut(!) and saddle
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Old 11-29-2020, 07:00 PM
mirwa mirwa is offline
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A very basic way of setting up, loosen your strings off, adjust the truss rod so a ruler sits dead flat on the neck, no rock no gap underneath. Tune the strings back up, adjust saddle with some paper shims underneath to achieve 2mm clearance under the bass e string.

This is far from what we do in the shop for setups, but for someone who has never done it before, it gets you in the ball park

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Old 11-29-2020, 07:32 PM
ozgolath ozgolath is offline
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Thanks - i realise I cant find any compensated Martin-style lefty saddles online, th0ugh a slightly different version is available. Are these two interchangeable:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...KL5A1OLE&psc=1
https://graphtech.com/products/tusq-...dle-comp-lefty


Only the second product is available in left-handed, whereas my guitar has the top onel
So shims will have to do. I might buy and glue-on ones, but it seems a good idea for now to just use some paper
The guy buried the strings deep inside the nut and that might need replacing at some point in future - for now i can handle the buzz i get on extra hard open strumming

Last edited by ozgolath; 11-29-2020 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 11-29-2020, 08:56 PM
ozgolath ozgolath is offline
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UPDATE:

So i used paper shims at the saddle incrementally till i got the tone and action exactly where i like it - the guitar is singing again! I cant notice any change in intonation from paper shims (is that a myth?)

The only thing left is - the nut! not sure but does the much lowered nut action cause less snappy open string hammer-ons?

Eventually I'll speak to the tech and see if he'll make good on his warranty and do a proper job on the saddle and nut.

Last edited by ozgolath; 11-29-2020 at 09:14 PM.
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  #15  
Old 11-29-2020, 09:37 PM
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That guitar is probably set too low AND probably needed a fret dress.

You shoudn't have adjusted the truss rod til your guy got a chance to look at it, IMO. That's the first step in a setup. If you got the relief messed up, everything is off.

You want your tech to stand behind a warranty after you've adjusted the truss rod (to both extremes, according to you), and shimmed the saddle with paper??? I'd say you're on your own at this point. He might not have done a perfect job, but if you take it back, you owe him for another setup.
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Last edited by bnjp; 11-29-2020 at 09:51 PM.
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