What Budget Microphone have you been impressed with?

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by lkingston

IMHO, the importance of the mic being an Equitek E100 or a much more expensive AKG-414 is right up there with the importance of whether they are using a student violin, Squire bass, and Epiphone guitar or top tier instruments.

Yes, it makes a difference…but it doesn’t always matter!

Again, it may not matter to most listeners of the final product but they're not listening to a comparison of microphones; most listeners are zeroed in on the talent not the quality of the sound so long as the sound reaches the level of what is listenable to the person hearing it. Had better mics been available for tracking, those mics might have been chosen over the mics that were used and the end result may have been more pleasing to the ear. And also again, not everyone has the same ears. What sounds great to you may not sound so great those with more sensitive hearing.

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Again, it may not matter to most listeners of the final product but they're not listening to a comparison of microphones; most listeners are zeroed in on the talent not the quality of the sound so long as the sound reaches the level of what is listenable to the person hearing it. Had better mics been available for tracking, those mics might have been chosen over the mics that were used and the end result may have been more pleasing to the ear. And also again, not everyone has the same ears. What sounds great to you may not sound so great those with more sensitive hearing.

One could have the exact same conversation about guitars. Are there good sounding budget guitars? Can you make a decent recording with a budget guitar? Is a recording done with a $10,000 guitar better than one done with a $1,000 instrument? Are some people’s ears so discerning that they are bothered by inexpensive Epiphones and Yamahas? Does a really great performance transcend the quality of your instrument?

https://youtu.be/600ykNF3md4

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by lkingston

One could have the exact same conversation about guitars. Are there good sounding budget guitars? Can you make a decent recording with a budget guitar? Is a recording done with a $10,000 guitar better than one done with a $1,000 instrument? Are some people’s ears so discerning that they are bothered by inexpensive Epiphones and Yamahas? Does a really great performance transcend the quality of your instrument?

https://youtu.be/600ykNF3md4

Still not clear what your actual point is... To mention once again,,, "good sounding" --"decent recording" -- "better than" --"bothered by" are all subjective assessments, judgements, or perspectives, and not subject to Quantitative analysis.

I think the reason your posts are unclear as to actual point is ,, because you seem to keep conflating two entirely separate concepts ?? And keep using that same conflation with different adjectives . Talent of performance has no direct correlation to the quality of the equipment use to record it ..Those are two different unrelated concepts

But in answer :: No a really great performance does not "transcend" the quality of your instrument. As noted those are two entirely disconnected concepts... AND Once again not only is "really great performance" subjective But is totally unrelated to the quality of an instrument ----which exists beyond the scope of and is unrelated to, any performance on it, or any other instrument. Which is also true of the quality of a microphone ...

And yes there is no question that the learned skill of critical listening is not remotely universal... It arguably exists in as many variations of skill level as there are the number of different people listening. And it is not a matter of " bothered by" so much as, "can hear a difference" ... just sayin'

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by lkingston

One could have the exact same conversation about guitars. Are there good sounding budget guitars? Can you make a decent recording with a budget guitar?

Yes, one CAN make the same argument about guitars and the same things I've said apply. The majority of listeners would not hear a difference but there are some people who will.

Originally Posted by lkingston

Is a recording done with a $10,000 guitar better than one done with a $1,000 instrument? Are some people’s ears so discerning that they are bothered by inexpensive Epiphones and Yamahas?

Now we've crossed over into strawman territory. I've never used the word "bothered," nor have I even implied that notion. I've said there are people who can hear a difference.

Originally Posted by lkingston

Does a really great performance transcend the quality of your instrument?

Almost always. But a "really great performance" is a high bar. Most home recordists would probably benefit from having microphones (and other gear) best suited to their particular instrument, style, voice, etc.

Granted, that's out of reach for many people, but there are also people who have tens of thousands invested in custom guitars who want to record themselves but limit their recording budget to a few hundred dollars. That seems a strange line in the sand to me.

Originally Posted by lkingston

https://youtu.be/600ykNF3md4

I'm not sure what the point is of you posting this video. This certainly displays the talent of the player. That comes through clearly which is why I agree that a great performance can transcend the instrument. But if you're trying to say that this sounds good, I disagree. The sound is terrible. It sounds like a child's toy... albeit, a child's toy that is being played well.

[jim1960]

Maybe I can best explain my viewpoint this way...

As I see it, there are five variables involved in creating a great recording:

1. The performance talent.
2. The recording engineering, mixing, and mastering talent.
3. The recording space.
4. The recording equipment.
5. The instruments.

I've listed them in the order of importance, imo.

Talent is certainly the most important but talent does not require anything approaching perfection because many flaws can be overcome by talented people in the booth using tricks and gear.

The people who do the recording, mixing, and mastering are also critical to the process. There are people out there who can make mediocre gear sound great because they know how to position mics with near perfection. They know how to use eq, compression, and other tools in ways that elevate music to the next level.

The space... the room... while it's not impossible to make a great recording in a room poorly suited for recording, it will require quite a bit of work from the people listed in #2, and it will leave us with an end result that likely would have come out even better had it started in a great space.

Recording equipment comes in at #4 for me because if given the choice between these two combinations:

1. Mediocre recording, mixing, and mastering talent & great recording equipment
2. Great recording, mixing, and mastering talent & mediocre recording equipment

...I'm taking the latter every time. Unfortunately, few home recordists rise to the level of great recording, mixing, and mastering talent so they're more likely to benefit from better gear. That doesn't mean there's a guarantee that will result in improved recordings. It's certainly possible (and I've heard it) that a person's ability to use gear proficiently is so inept that they make great gear sound bad.

Instruments are last not because I deem the quality of the instruments unimportant (nothing on this list is unimportant) but because I think they're less critical to the end result ...although that could change depending on the musical genre and particular piece being recorded. For example, some particular solo guitar piece may sound significantly better on a nylon strung guitar or in some other case a guitar with more sustain than most.

My point is that while much that is less than ideal can be overcome in attaining a great recording, there's a cumulative effect that involves all five of the things listed. The better each of those five is, the more likely we end up with a great recording (and vice versa).

[lkingston]

One of my favorite YouTubers is a young guy named Josh Turner. I like virtually all his videos.

What is particularly interesting to me is that he has recorded from everything from a small Zoom recorder to really high end mics. Sometimes he will mix the two, plugging a better mic into one channel of the Zoom recorder for one part.

Here he is with decent mics:

https://youtu.be/eT98yd84iCE

Here he is with a Zoom recorder:

https://youtu.be/QcVec_RPwuc

Outstanding either way. Not just the performance, but the sound.

[lkingston]

This performance gives me goosebumps. With good headphones you can hear the low resonance of the Drop-D tuning (which I believe is augmented by an off camera amp).

https://youtu.be/H_fduLBab9A

Now I personally am pretty picky. I upgraded from my Zoom H6 to an F6 because I didn’t like the noisy preamps of the H6. I would do a stereo recording like this on my F6 with my AT5020ST, but I have done lots of recordings with the H6 mics.

Frankly, a pair of $100 each AT 2020s would be a big step up from the H6 mics, and yet I really have nothing negative to say about this H6 recording.

[FrankHudson]

I could pretty much sign off in agreement on Jim1960's last posts on this thread. I'm not completely sure that more expensive "better" equipment helps inexperienced or inept recordists every time or even most of the time. I don't know Jim wrong about this either and I doubt either of us have the data to be sure of that small point. That is a small point assuming one can afford better equipment, and there's a lot of condensed wisdom rolled up into what Jim said.

KevWind's "two different unrelated concepts" is trying to stress a point too much to my mind. Performers and how and where they are performing is different from potential recording or reproducing quality -- different things, yes. I can see why Kev is frustrated when he thinks folks are forgetting that. Different, but they do inter-relate I still think. Different singers will sound different into different mics. Some singers have particularly powerful voices and styles that benefit hardly at all from increased sensitivity and responsiveness of mics that bring out lovely qualities that would be hard to discern in other singers. In some cases, the EQ and response of a less expensive mic will "match" a singer or the style of a song.

And as the thread progresses it seems we've understood microphones as recording acoustic guitar and voice (this is the AGF after all, and the recording sub forum) not as tools for live sound -- or even recording other things. Those contexts inter-relate. Early on I remarked on how I loved my durable and useful SM57s I bought decades ago. That's "impressive" of a kind, the same way that a 300,000 mile Toyota truck is impressive though not in a way not like a Jaguar XKE is impressive. I'm not saying a SM57 is prettier, I'm saying, dang! it comes in handy often, it's nice to have a device I don't have to baby in some locations, and for micing a snare or a guitar cab I'm not sure want to spend more money on something else.

[lkingston]

Another thing is that a really talented person is going to be sensitive enough to compensate for what they are hearing in their headphones. Inexpensive mics like an AT2020 sound a bit harsh in the sibilant frequencies. An incredibly talented singer like Billie Eilish will sing her S’s differently to compensate. An equally talented producer/engineer like Finnaes will EQ it to bring out the best.

It is telling that Finnaes moved up to an orders of magnitude better mic when he could, but still has no problem using whatever mic they have on hand when they do promo appearances. I know plenty of singers who always carry around their own mics. I used to be one of them.

Like I mentioned a few comments back, I recently bought a used AT 2050 just to try it out. From my listening tests so far, I must say that it is way better than I expected it to be. The main difference between it and an AT-2035 is the extra polar patterns (figure 8 and omnidirectional).

At this point I would have no problem recommending an AT-2035 or AT-2050. I would choose it over the AT-2020 because it has a slightly bigger 1” capsule, and it comes with the shock mount. You really do need the shock mount anyway, and that eats up about $30 of the price difference.

As others have pointed out, there are some other really good inexpensive options.

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by CASD57

Dynamic:
Lewitt 250 MTP (Nice bass and top end)..(My Second favorite)
Se V7 (Warmer, big proximity effect)
Se V3 (Brighter)
Beyerdynamic TGV30d (Brighter, nice tone)
Shure 57 (Its a 57

I actually think you can get really good sound with a dynamic mic. If you use a really good preamp, you can even record from a bit of a distance.

Here is a recording of mine with a Shure Beta56A on the vocal. The Beta56A is just a Beta57A in a different housing. The guitar sound is the Schertler AG-6 pickup with the built in S-Mic turned up all the way. There is also a lot of guitar bleed into the vocal mic which I quite like.

The important thing is that I recorded into a Centrance Mixerface recorder which is kind of like a Zoom H series type recorder but with far less self noise in the preamps. The Shure Beta series mics have transformers and neodymium magnets which also give you a little more sensitivity. This is important when you are working with consumer grade preamps. This lets you distance mic with the dynamic.

For this recording, the Mixerface recorder preamp was turned all the way up.

https://youtu.be/RZSU_zWYBgg

Two notes on this:

I chose the dynamic mic over a way more condenser mic sitting right next to it on the shelf because I was recording in our living room and the dynamic mic rejects room ambience and noise better.

The reason I used the mic blend pickup instead of a mic on a stand is because that would have had more vocal bleed. Also, I wanted to be able to boost the thumb bass line without getting the low room rumble.

In a proper studio, I would have used two condenser mics.

[CASD57]

Originally Posted by lkingston

I actually think you can get really good sound with a dynamic mic. If you use a really good preamp, you can even record from a bit of a distance.

Here is a recording of mine with a Shure Beta56A on the vocal. The Beta56A is just a Beta57A in a different housing. The guitar sound is the Schertler AG-6 pickup with the built in S-Mic turned up all the way. There is also a lot of guitar bleed into the vocal mic which I quite like.

The important thing is that I recorded into a Centrance Mixerface recorder which is kind of like a Zoom H series type recorder but with far less self noise in the preamps. The Shure Beta series mics have transformers and neodymium magnets which also give you a little more sensitivity. This is important when you are working with consumer grade preamps. This lets you distance mic with the dynamic.

For this recording, the Mixerface recorder preamp was turned all the way up.

https://youtu.be/RZSU_zWYBgg

Two notes on this:

I chose the dynamic mic over a way more condenser mic sitting right next to it on the shelf because I was recording in our living room and the dynamic mic rejects room ambience and noise better.

The reason I used the mic blend pickup instead of a mic on a stand is because that would have had more vocal bleed. Also, I wanted to be able to boost the thumb bass line without getting the low room rumble.

In a proper studio, I would have used two condenser mics.

I like Mic'ing at a distance just to capture both the vocals and guitar without plugging in the guitar.. But as you mentioned a condenser picks up alot more and a bad room, like I have is trouble,
So that is the why I'm looking for a handheld stage condenser, hopefully I get some of the condenser goodness but less room noise.
Looking at the AT AE5400 or the EV RE520 just haven't decided yet..

I was always under the impression you needed to close mic a dynamic ,,So your info has helped to look for one that is more sensitive...Neo-mag etc..,

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by CASD57

I was always under the impression you needed to close mic a dynamic ,,So your info has helped to look for one that is more sensitive...Neo-mag etc..,

You do have to close mic a dynamic without a decent preamp. A regular SM-57 with a CloudLifter is magic. The extra 20db of clean gain is plenty for distance miking.

If you compare an SM57 to the much loved SM7B, the main difference is that the SM7Bb is much lower sensitivity, so you are forced into using a better preamp.

An SM57 has a mic element which is almost identical to that of an SM7B. On the 57 there is also a transformer that gives it a higher sensitivity (more output volume). Some purists say that that transformer hurts the sound but I don’t hear it.

A Beta57A adds the neodymium magnet to the equation, which gives it higher sensitivity. This is important if you are not using an external preamp (CloudLifter, FetHead or whatever).

With my MixerFace R4, the preamps are excellent, but not quite enough to use with an SM7B or SM57. With the Beta57 (Beta56), it is just enough gain for the Beta57 when you crank it all the way up. The R4 has very quiet preamps even cranked.

You could certainly get a great recording with a Zoom H6 and a SM7B or SM57 if you use a CloudLifter. My only problem with that was that I would go through batteries really quickly as the phantom powered preamp had. Lot of power draw.

I do really like the outstanding room rejection of the Beta57. I use the Beta56A because I like the streamlined look on video. I can’t hear the difference between that and my SM7B (properly preamped), and the form factor is similar: the same downward connected XLR cable. Just smaller.

[lkingston]

So there would be another inexpensive mic recommendation: a Beta56A plus a CloudLifter. Almost identical sound quality (I personally can’t hear the difference). The same downward facing cable management form factor as an SM7B. Just smaller and more discreet on video.

[lkingston]

Just be careful buying a Shure dynamic. There are a LOT of counterfeits. The counterfeits look identical but don’t sound nearly as good.

I like to buy mics used when I can, but in the case of a Shure dynamic, it is probably worth buying new retail from a major dealer like Sweetwater.

I did buy my Beta56A used on eBay because I figured it wasn’t popular enough to counterfeit. They’re counterfeiting more mics these days, so I don’t know that I would do it again.

[6L6]

Shure SM58 and 57.