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  #31  
Old 04-26-2017, 10:51 PM
perttime perttime is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffreyAK View Post
In my experience more headroom is better with solid-state amps, because you don't want them to distort.
You just haven't tried a good one, like Session, Tech 21, or Roland Blues Cube.

Most of those OD and distortion pedals are solid state too...
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  #32  
Old 04-27-2017, 04:21 AM
Mr. Jelly Mr. Jelly is offline
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Some time ago I was in a blues/rock band that most often only used the P.A. for vocals. So amps ran off the stage. To get the amp sound I liked I always had to run my amps to loud. So I got two 15 watt tube ampeg amps. My thinking was that if one amp wasn't loud enough for the room I'd Y cord them and run them both. I never did have to run them both.
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  #33  
Old 04-27-2017, 06:24 AM
Scotso Scotso is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
Probably either the idiosyncrasies of the AC15 circuit or the match level of the tubes, but I'm a bit surprised - they seem to have had great success with an AC30 and a Pro Junior; I can't vouch for the results with a Bugera, and since I'm mostly a high-headroom clean-tone kinda guy I wouldn't be inclined to plug in a set of EL844's anyway - but thanks for the heads-up...
I find your logic confusing. In the Ac10 thread you are touting $70 tubes as so superior to Oem $20 tubes. But here you tout $30 tubes with which you have only read advertisements and reviews on a store site trying to sell you something. And touting something you have never heard or fooled with. But you have the hubris to blame the circuit of the AC15. Rather than speaking with no experience, I encourage you to try them on your Bugera. On the Ac 15 the volume reduction to crunch was not enough to say you could play a bedroom levels with power tube and/or speaker distortion- unless your family or ears are more tolerant than mine. A 25% reduction in volume is still freakin' loud and I would argue 25% is more like 15-20% in the unadvertised real world on a Vox. A 25% reduction is only 6 decibels. It is the equivalent of standing 10 feet from a freight train going 40mph and doubling that to 20 feet. Ya less Dbs but still loud. Of course if you are just interested in pre amp distortion, there are other solutions with the ac 15 and other amps than fiddling with tubes.
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Last edited by Scotso; 04-27-2017 at 10:43 AM.
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  #34  
Old 04-27-2017, 06:39 AM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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Speaking of fiddling with tubes, when you change out your tubes doesn't that void the warranty ?? I know on some mics it does. Because of bias issues, I don't change out tubes in amps, because it can cause damage to other parts of the circuit. Upgrading to a better brand of tube is one thing, but when you start changing for a hotter tube you may be asking for trouble.
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  #35  
Old 04-27-2017, 07:43 AM
KevWind KevWind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue View Post
It's tough. What a lot of folks who grew listening to classic rock through early metal were hearing was power section distortion, not preamp distortion. That's pretty much what the loud Marshall experience is.

A lot of bedroom amps let you lower the power section volume, and control gain with the preamp section. That's a great development to get distortion at low volumes, but it isn't what we've been raised on. So it sounds lacking to folks who have gigged with amps they've turned up above "6".

That's why I like my Mesa Transatlantic. It has the "Master Volume" and "Gain" (actually lets you bypass the master volume on channel 1) abilities of modern amps, but it also lets you pick how many power tubes you're running so it lets you push the power end at 7, 15, or 25 watts.

Even a 7 watt amp being run hard is too loud for bedroom if you ask me and sends me running for my ear plugs. But the character changes as soon as you turn up past 5 or 6 which can be doable depending on your living situation. It's just a different sound.
Interesting..... for me personally (who is newly back into electric guitar and has not played electric since 1969)
I have no expectations of sound... (also I personally do not really care for significant metal-ish type distortion) Which is why I suppose I really enjoy the sound of my Supro 50 watt tube amp. Even at the low volume levels I normally play it at, in the house. The clarity and "warmth" ( yes funky cliche') even at only a 1/4 volume or less is IMO, superb.
I also have a 20 watt SS practice amp an, Orange Crush 20 RT (with the HP spk. cutout feature, for stealth practice ) that has as you describe a clean channel and a dirty channel with both volume and gain on the dirty channel , that can distort quite a bit a low volume , but I actually the play the clean channel almost all the time . But between the two amps at low volume I still much prefer the tube amp
those two.
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  #36  
Old 04-27-2017, 07:47 AM
Paleolith54 Paleolith54 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Maniac View Post
Speaking of fiddling with tubes, when you change out your tubes doesn't that void the warranty ?? I know on some mics it does. Because of bias issues, I don't change out tubes in amps, because it can cause damage to other parts of the circuit. Upgrading to a better brand of tube is one thing, but when you start changing for a hotter tube you may be asking for trouble.
The answer to everything you just said is "it depends in the amp."
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  #37  
Old 04-27-2017, 08:25 AM
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JeffreyAK JeffreyAK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perttime View Post
You just haven't tried a good one, like Session, Tech 21, or Roland Blues Cube.

Most of those OD and distortion pedals are solid state too...
Overdriving a solid-state amp circuit through too much volume (clipping) tends not to sound good, which is one reason audiophiles pay far higher prices for tube stereo amps. A distortion pedal doesn't work by overdriving and clipping (nor do distortion circuits built into some solid-state amps, like the Blues Cube, which by the way is 60W), and a good one can make your solid state amp sound very close to a tube amp that is played hard enough to distort. I used rigs like that for years. But that's still with plenty of headroom on the solid-state amp, so it never starts to clip.
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  #38  
Old 04-27-2017, 08:59 AM
perttime perttime is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffreyAK View Post
... A distortion pedal doesn't work by overdriving and clipping (nor do distortion circuits built into some solid-state amps, like the Blues Cube, which by the way is 60W)....
The pedal and whatever circuits go into a SS amp are still SS. Blues Cubes can be switched to lower wattages.

I still like the overdriven sound of my old SS Session, with master volume turned either up or down. The new generation is even better.

I have tried SS amps that were absolutely horrible with any overdrive. I've heard some tube amp sounds that made me want to run away too. Cannot generalize.
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  #39  
Old 04-27-2017, 10:46 AM
jim777 jim777 is offline
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I play an 85 Watt Boogie Mk IV in my living room, and it sounds fantastic at any volume. It's also got 2 12" EVMs So, 'is 15w too much' has a couple of answers depending on a couple of important other points.

If you've got a master volume and a channel volume, you can use them to get the desired breakup you want at a volume you can stand. This is of course dependent on the quality of the amp

If you are running your 15Watter into a 1x8 cabinet it will also obviously be lower in volume at the same settings than if you are running it into a rectifier 4x12. For the biogger cab, you may need to go a little louder because it simply may not respond on "1" if the amp is 100Watts, but if it's less than 20 it shouldn't be an issue.

For whatever reason, tube watts always seem considerably louder than solid state watts. I don't actually care about the reason, just pointing that out. lol

So, Yamaha makes the THR5, which is 5 watts and has some cool stuff built in. Almost all the big tube amp companies make low wattage amps now too, like Mesa (has a few, actually, like the AMAZING Mark V:25), Peavey, and Marshall (the Jubilee 20W is particularly nice). There is the Blackstar HT5, Bugera G5, Victory Kraken, and I have recently heard very good reviews of the 20w Friedman Runt. But seriously, unless you are looking at an old 60's or 70's era amp with only a channel volume, you should be able to make ****ed near anything sound good at bedroom levels without too much hassle. A decent OD pedal and a chorus (or a cheap multi effects) and you are good to go.

Get the amp you like would be my suggestion, and make it work. It won't be difficult with a 1x12 or 2x12 setup.
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  #40  
Old 04-27-2017, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue View Post
It's tough. What a lot of folks who grew listening to classic rock through early metal were hearing was power section distortion, not preamp distortion. That's pretty much what the loud Marshall experience is.

A lot of bedroom amps let you lower the power section volume, and control gain with the preamp section. That's a great development to get distortion at low volumes, but it isn't what we've been raised on. So it sounds lacking to folks who have gigged with amps they've turned up above "6".

That's why I like my Mesa Transatlantic. It has the "Master Volume" and "Gain" (actually lets you bypass the master volume on channel 1) abilities of modern amps, but it also lets you pick how many power tubes you're running so it lets you push the power end at 7, 15, or 25 watts.

Even a 7 watt amp being run hard is too loud for bedroom if you ask me and sends me running for my ear plugs. But the character changes as soon as you turn up past 5 or 6 which can be doable depending on your living situation. It's just a different sound.

Carr Skylark has this perfectly wired, as well.
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  #41  
Old 04-27-2017, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim777 View Post
I play an 85 Watt Boogie Mk IV in my living room, and it sounds fantastic at any volume. It's also got 2 12" EVMs So, 'is 15w too much' has a couple of answers depending on a couple of important other points.

If you've got a master volume and a channel volume, you can use them to get the desired breakup you want at a volume you can stand. This is of course dependent on the quality of the amp

If you are running your 15Watter into a 1x8 cabinet it will also obviously be lower in volume at the same settings than if you are running it into a rectifier 4x12. For the biogger cab, you may need to go a little louder because it simply may not respond on "1" if the amp is 100Watts, but if it's less than 20 it shouldn't be an issue.

For whatever reason, tube watts always seem considerably louder than solid state watts. I don't actually care about the reason, just pointing that out. lol

So, Yamaha makes the THR5, which is 5 watts and has some cool stuff built in. Almost all the big tube amp companies make low wattage amps now too, like Mesa (has a few, actually, like the AMAZING Mark V:25), Peavey, and Marshall (the Jubilee 20W is particularly nice). There is the Blackstar HT5, Bugera G5, Victory Kraken, and I have recently heard very good reviews of the 20w Friedman Runt. But seriously, unless you are looking at an old 60's or 70's era amp with only a channel volume, you should be able to make ****ed near anything sound good at bedroom levels without too much hassle. A decent OD pedal and a chorus (or a cheap multi effects) and you are good to go.

Get the amp you like would be my suggestion, and make it work. It won't be difficult with a 1x12 or 2x12 setup.
THR-10 is a Great unit, especially at mid-lower volumes, almost a perfect bedroom/dorm practice unit.
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  #42  
Old 04-27-2017, 12:07 PM
Blunote Blunote is offline
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I have a Little Lanilei 3350. It's a boutique amp built by Tris Mahaffay at Mahaffay Amps. He also makes a model he calls the Hi-Low Plexi.

They have a pre-amp and two power stages, the first is a 1/4 watt tube. It feeds at line level into a 33 watt solid state power section. The amps allow you to get tube tone and distortion at volumes you can talk over, or you can drive a pair of 4X12 cabinets at stage volumes.

They typically cost around $250 new.

http://www.mahaffayamps.com/index.htm
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  #43  
Old 04-27-2017, 12:18 PM
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Rock it!

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  #44  
Old 04-27-2017, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
I have no expectations of sound... (also I personally do not really care for significant metal-ish type distortion) Which is why I suppose I really enjoy the sound of my Supro 50 watt tube amp. Even at the low volume levels I normally play it at, in the house. The clarity and "warmth" ( yes funky cliche') even at only a 1/4 volume or less is IMO, superb.
Hope my post didn't come across as "Metal" oriented. I meant classic rock through the period before specialized high gain amps came along.

I hear you on the supro. It's the same reason I like older fenders. They never sound "thin". Even crystal clear, they have gravitas, if I may borrow from the Romans.
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  #45  
Old 04-27-2017, 10:59 PM
perttime perttime is offline
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Here's a clip I like, despite pretty low-quality-everything:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myY95mnB2Zg
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