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  #16  
Old 04-26-2017, 12:08 PM
Dan Lampton Dan Lampton is offline
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Get the model with a volume knob. Works great.
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  #17  
Old 04-26-2017, 12:22 PM
Jerry D Jerry D is offline
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Originally Posted by Dan Lampton View Post
Get the model with a volume knob. Works great.
What I was thinking as I read through this thread.

I think one thing that's missing in this discussion is "presence". With a tube amp (not sure about solid state amps) a lot of speaker area and a lot of power results in presence that's just not available in the smaller amps. That's why I love my Super Reverb.
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  #18  
Old 04-26-2017, 12:24 PM
adaw2821 adaw2821 is offline
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Lots of good information. Thanks guys. I'm gonna take a while to process it. I suspected the 15w would be to loud and had thought about the idea of an iso box.

The thing is, I do 95% of my playing at home for my own enjoyment. So I want to get good tone at acceptable volume. Not just some good enough to practice with. I am planning on making a trip to GC and play though some different stuff and see what it sounds like at home volume level.
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  #19  
Old 04-26-2017, 12:28 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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Ya I have a 5 watt microcube that's louder than hell but it sounds like crap next to my other rig. It's about TONE, you want a good tone, you want a nice rich sound, you get that with the higher wattage amps. You can always turn down the volume.
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  #20  
Old 04-26-2017, 01:16 PM
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Hi adaw

Carl's Custom Guitars Speaker Soak Power Tube Amp - Amplifier Attenuator - Brake - Pad. They are hand built in an aluminum box. Mine's about 3 yrs old.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carls-Custom...5bkuwJejQgPl7w

I own one of these for my Blues Jr and it allows you to push the tubes, and keep the volume manageable. Works great - $49 (8 or 16 ohm) or $63 (4 ohm). Handy little thing for playing quiet stages/venues/rooms using my normal amp settings.

Just unplug the speaker wire from the amp (to the speaker), connect a speaker wire from the amp to the power soak, then plug the speaker wire into the other side of the soak/box.


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  #21  
Old 04-26-2017, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Maniac View Post
... It's about TONE, you want a good tone, you want a nice rich sound, you get that with the higher wattage amps. You can always turn down the volume.
You don't necessarily have to have the Watts to shred your wallpaper to achieve a nice rich sound.

A speaker and cabinet that matches your sound preferences will certainly help. Most find 12" speakers about right. Which one of those, is a matter for lengthy debates.
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  #22  
Old 04-26-2017, 02:08 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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Who said anything about shredding wallpaper ?? I play mostly at low volume, and get a nice rich tone. The 5 watt amp doesn't have that same tone.

And yes I use two 12" speakers.
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  #23  
Old 04-26-2017, 03:15 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adaw2821 View Post
...Would the 15w be too loud for home use? I might use an overdrive pedal, but I would still like to be getting some of my crunch from the amp...
Here's the Bugera V5 review mentioned above:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=460805

BTW, before buying the V5 I regularly used a V22 for home practice; in case you're not aware it too has scaleable power levels, achieved here by running the tubes in triode class-A (versus pentode class-AB in full-power mode), as well as a dedicated OD channel with independent gain/volume controls. One of the fringe benefits here is that the triode setting lends your tone a pre-Top Boost Vox-type flavor, essentially giving you a formidable combination of two separate and distinct tonal palettes from which to choose, the fullness of a 12" speaker, and if you need trem a stomp box can cover that end of things - all for far less than an AC15...

Another option available to you with the new Infinium circuit is the use of various compatible power tubes, without the need to have your amp professionally biased ($100+ around my end of town, and most emphatically not a DIY job if you value your equipment - and your life ); with the right combination of preamp/power tubes you can achieve just about anything from "brown" crunch to Boogie sustain to Twin-like cleans, depending on the power/EQ/channel settings and instrument used. One virtually unknown - and extremely useful - option is the use of specialized low-output power tubes, to drop the overall volume while still maintaining the characteristic EL84 tone; here's an example:

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/EL...low-power-EL84

Pretty cool for $30 - no need for pedals when you can get your tone the right way, for far less money - and when you're ready just plug in a set of these:

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/EL...9-Premium-EL84

- and play a 700-seat house with no problem...

You really can have the best of both worlds - if you buy right the first time...
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Last edited by Steve DeRosa; 04-26-2017 at 04:47 PM. Reason: typo
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  #24  
Old 04-26-2017, 06:04 PM
Scotso Scotso is offline
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I have never heard a good solution for taming a tube amp. Everything that tames volume to give breakup and lower levels sucks tone in my experience.

I have always found very small wattage with onboard attenuation and a 12" speaker the best solution
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  #25  
Old 04-26-2017, 06:23 PM
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I routinely crank my 100W up to a quarter to a third of full on, at least when no one else is home. More than that and I'd have to leave the room, but it's not crazy loud at the ~ 25W level in a large room in a house. Anything with a master volume will sound fine at lower levels, but you do miss the power-amp side overdrive, so the tonal character isn't quite the same. What I'd do is, go check out some amps, all in the same room and at the same volume level that you'd like to play with at home, and see what you like best.

That's all for tube amps. In my experience more headroom is better with solid-state amps, because you don't want them to distort. If you want distortion, you use effects pedals.
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  #26  
Old 04-26-2017, 06:48 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotso View Post
I have never heard a good solution for taming a tube amp. Everything that tames volume to give breakup and lower levels sucks tone in my experience.

I have always found very small wattage with onboard attenuation and a 12" speaker the best solution.
For your consideration (from thetubestore.com website):
Quote:
JJ EL844 (low power EL84 version) - I used a stock Fender Pro Junior to test these tubes. When switching between tubes no bias adjustments were made. This was a plug and play test and done this way because I figured most people would likely drop them in and see what happens. The EL844 does exactly what the manufacturer claims. You get all the tone of an EL84 with less volume overall. The difference doesnít end there. Because the tube has less power to give, you end up with very nice distortion at lower volumes. I ran the Pro Jr. up to a point just at the start of audible breakup. With EL84ís, the Fender Pro Jr. was loud and punchy. Switch to the EL844ís and cool stuff starts to happen. At the same settings the distortion was now very nice. The EL844 adds a bit of compression so the distortion was smoother and more focused. These tubes have excellent response to pick attack. With a lighter touch you can get sparkling shimmer, dig in with the pick and you can push the tubes into overdrive. This characteristic is one of the highlights of the tube. Iíve used many amps with a low power switch and even on my own designs I donít find it really useful or toneful. The JJ EL844 accomplishes the task very nicely. You can now get your AC30 to deliver the tone you want at a volume you can live with. And donít be mistaken. Any situation that your EL84 equipped amp could tackle should be no problem for the EL844 equipped amp. What you gain is a very sweet overdriven tone that you can control from your guitar and a natural compression that firms up the tone as you dig deeper into overdriven sounds.
Let's see: tames volume (reining in an AC30 is a very strong testimonial in my book), gives both breakup and lower levels without sucking tone, you can control everything from your guitar, and there's no need for either an attenuator or a bias job - um, isn't this exactly what you're looking for...?
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  #27  
Old 04-26-2017, 07:10 PM
Scotso Scotso is offline
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It sound good in writing but the results in reality are not as good at taming. When I tried it, it was just ok. Some tone change was present and volumes were not tamed as much as advertised. As indicated, to my ears the best solution is a small watter with on board attenuation.

Throw in a Bugera and see what happens. In a AC 15 they were meh. Not worth the $ or time.
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  #28  
Old 04-26-2017, 07:24 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Probably either the idiosyncrasies of the AC15 circuit or the match level of the tubes, but I'm a bit surprised - they seem to have had great success with an AC30 and a Pro Junior; I can't vouch for the results with a Bugera, and since I'm mostly a high-headroom clean-tone kinda guy I wouldn't be inclined to plug in a set of EL844's anyway - but thanks for the heads-up...
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  #29  
Old 04-26-2017, 09:18 PM
adaw2821 adaw2821 is offline
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The EL 844 tubes sound interesting. If I get the bassbreaker, I will definitely try them out for the money. Are tubes something that I would be able to change myself?
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  #30  
Old 04-26-2017, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotso View Post
I have never heard a good solution for taming a tube amp. Everything that tames volume to give breakup and lower levels sucks tone in my experience.

I have always found very small wattage with onboard attenuation and a 12" speaker the best solution
It's tough. What a lot of folks who grew listening to classic rock through early metal were hearing was power section distortion, not preamp distortion. That's pretty much what the loud Marshall experience is.

A lot of bedroom amps let you lower the power section volume, and control gain with the preamp section. That's a great development to get distortion at low volumes, but it isn't what we've been raised on. So it sounds lacking to folks who have gigged with amps they've turned up above "6".

That's why I like my Mesa Transatlantic. It has the "Master Volume" and "Gain" (actually lets you bypass the master volume on channel 1) abilities of modern amps, but it also lets you pick how many power tubes you're running so it lets you push the power end at 7, 15, or 25 watts.

Even a 7 watt amp being run hard is too loud for bedroom if you ask me and sends me running for my ear plugs. But the character changes as soon as you turn up past 5 or 6 which can be doable depending on your living situation. It's just a different sound.
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