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  #16  
Old 06-04-2009, 02:30 PM
mmmaak mmmaak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan T View Post
And here's one that says A2 is Asus2:

http://pwarchive.com/resources/fingering.aspx?Chord=A2

Ambiguous and potentially confusing, in my opinion.

As I said, this is just my own pet peeve. Other folks use these terms for writing charts and never think twice about it. Maybe some folks who read through this thread now will.
Point well-taken. So, to the OP: Which "sound" are you looking for? Aadd9 or Asus2?
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  #17  
Old 06-04-2009, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mmmaak View Post
Point well-taken. So, to the OP: Which "sound" are you looking for? Aadd9 or Asus2?
Hi mmmmmm...
The original poster asked about Bb2, not A2, Asus, or Aadd9, or any of the at least 3 inversions available for each.
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  #18  
Old 06-04-2009, 04:37 PM
mmmaak mmmaak is offline
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Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi mmmmmm...
The original poster asked about Bb2, not A2, Asus, or Aadd9, or any of the at least 3 inversions available for each.
That's why I was referring to the "sound" and not the specific chord. OK, I'll rephrase my question

Which "sound" are you looking for? Bbadd9 or Bbsus2?
As Bryan T has shown, Bb2 may mean either.
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  #19  
Old 06-04-2009, 04:59 PM
ewalling ewalling is offline
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Erm, isn't "A2", if this is bona fide musical term, the same as the more widely used "A9"?
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  #20  
Old 06-04-2009, 05:07 PM
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Erm, isn't "A2", if this is bona fide musical term, the same as the more widely used "A9"?
Hi ew...
No, technically the intervals would be an octave apart (between 9 & 2).

A true ''2'' chord with the root in the bass would have some challenging fingering options in standard tuning...because it would include the root and the note one step above it then the third and fifth...much easier to play clusters like these on keyboards than guitars...

And most chord tools don't list the ''2'' muchless the ''sus2'' (out of 4 solid chord programs I own, only one lists the sus2 and none list a straight 2 chord in maj, or min, seventh, or dim configurations)
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  #21  
Old 06-04-2009, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi ew...
No, technically the intervals would be an octave apart (between 9 & 2).

A true ''2'' chord with the root in the bass would have some challenging fingering options in standard tuning...because it would include the root and the note one step above it then the third and fifth...much easier to play clusters like these on keyboards than guitars...

And most chord tools don't list the ''2'' muchless the ''sus2'' (out of 4 solid chord programs I own, only one lists the sus2 and none list a straight 2 chord in maj, or min, seventh, or dim configurations)
Hi Larry,
That's interesting. I just assumed the same principle for 7th chords, where the 7th can appear at different positions in the chord, from the bass strings up to the trebles. would hold for 9ths and 13ths too.
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  #22  
Old 06-04-2009, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ewalling View Post
Erm, isn't "A2", if this is bona fide musical term, the same as the more widely used "A9"?
A2 definitely isn't an A9, at least not on any charts I've seen. That would be a little too James Brown for a praise band.
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  #23  
Old 06-04-2009, 05:39 PM
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A2 definitely isn't an A9, at least not on any charts I've seen. That would be a little too James Brown for a praise band.
Hi Bryan...
There is a lot of variety in Praise Bands and with horns a ''2'' chord could make a nice note cluster with two saxes and a trumpet or trombone...
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  #24  
Old 06-06-2009, 07:31 AM
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Default A2 vs A add 9 vs A9 vs...

OK, I can't stand it...I don't post very often here, but this discussion is too interesting not to throw my 2 cents into.

I think the number of posts and differing interpretations supports Brian T's assertion that the "2" designation (Bb2 or A2 or whatever) is ambiguous.

Here's my take: a suspended chord implies that the composer has chosen not to expose the major or minor tonality of the chord. This means that the 3rd scale degree (in the case of Bb, "D", in the case of A, "C#) will not be played. Ironically, this adds a certain "ambiguity" to the chord.

An add 9 includes both the 2nd and 3rd scale degrees to the chord. As Larry mentioned, technically the 2nd degree should be voiced abovethe third for the chord to officially be an add 9, but modern ears have become accustomed to hearing it clustered right in between the tonic and the third, and if you have a bass player it technically is an octave above the fundamental 3rd.

The 9th means, at least to us "old schoolers", that we are playing a dominant 7th chord with the second scale degree inserted in the octave above the (flatted) seventh, hence the James Brown/ horn shout inferences.

As far as practical application, this rule of thumb seems to work for me:
If the chord is being substituted for a minor chord, always leave the third out, if it is being substituted for a major chord, it doesn't really matter, exception: if you are doing a "voice leading" progression, it should mirror whatever its context implies.

Examples: I'm going to use two variants of a very common modern progression that I've seen notated with the "2" designation. I probably know between 25 and 50 worship songs alone that use this formula, and at least that many other modern songs that employ it.

Progression: C G A2 F - Don't play the third. This is a variant (in different keys) used recently.

Progression: G D(sus4) Em C2 - this is another more common variant on the same progression in another key. Most players finger this 3-2-0-0-3-3, x-x-0-2-3-2 or (3), 0-2-2-0-3-3 (technically an Em7), x-3-2-0-3-3. In this case, the C being played is actually a C add 9. The fingering for C sus 2 would be x-3-0-0-3-3. However, if you play this progression both ways and listen carefully, you will find that when you play the sus 2, there seems to be something missing (at least to my ear - your results may vary). This is because the "E" which is the major third in the C chord has a voice leading that implies some finality and a "hankering" to return to the D which is in the G chord. Try it.

The bottom line for me is the rule is the same for reading it as applies to any other reading --- context, context, context.

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Last edited by vac4873; 06-07-2009 at 06:51 AM. Reason: corrected Em7 fingering
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  #25  
Old 06-15-2009, 06:08 AM
cb56 cb56 is offline
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Can I post a simple explanation that I believe is correct.

Cadd9 is CEGD
contains the Maj. 3rd and the ninth.

C2 the 2nd replaces the 3rd CDG
don't know why the C2 isn't called Sus2 unless maybe Sus2 implies resolution of the 2 to the major 3rd in the next chord CSus2 resolves to C Maj. Just a guess on that one.

C9 of course implies that there is a dominant 7th also
CEG Bb D

btw I think I'm saying the same thing as vac4873 context, context ...
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  #26  
Old 06-15-2009, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb56 View Post
Can I post a simple explanation that I believe is correct.

Cadd9 is CEGD
contains the Maj. 3rd and the ninth.

C2 the 2nd replaces the 3rd CDG
don't know why the C2 isn't called Sus2 unless maybe Sus2 implies resolution of the 2 to the major 3rd in the next chord CSus2 resolves to C Maj. Just a guess on that one.

C9 of course implies that there is a dominant 7th also
CEG Bb D

btw I think I'm saying the same thing as vac4873 context, context ...
Hmmm,....I love the "nomenclature game"..

Lets see,.....seems the "2" in a "C" would be a "D", no? and the "9" would imply a 7th or A# HOWEVER,...implied and played are not necessarily the same. Context, as mentioned is EVERYTHING.

So, C7 add 9 tells us we NEED the 7th..C9 says "maybe" and C2 could substitute for C9 in the proper context..like Amin and C or D and Bmin 7th at times and with certain fingerings..

It takes very few notes to "imply" a harmonizing chord..a root and its additives (2,4,7,dim,aug, etc) represented will often do the trick..adding more information MAY even be hazardous...or necessary....context, again.
FWIW, Robben Ford does an excellent master class of just that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGhiRie4V_k enjoy!
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  #27  
Old 06-15-2009, 10:28 AM
cb56 cb56 is offline
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Oh well I tried.
Plain and simple, a 2 chord contains no 3rd, be it major or minor.
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  #28  
Old 06-15-2009, 11:19 AM
Bryan T Bryan T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb56 View Post
Oh well I tried.
Plain and simple, a 2 chord contains no 3rd, be it major or minor.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, that is not always true. Some folks will see C2 and play Cadd9, which has a third. Some will see D2 and play Dsus2, which omits the third. Same notation, different interpretation.
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  #29  
Old 06-15-2009, 12:42 PM
cb56 cb56 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan T View Post
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, that is not always true. Some folks will see C2 and play Cadd9, which has a third.
That may be true but, if they see a C2 and play a Cadd9 they are playing a different chord. It may sound fine there, but it is a different chord.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan T View Post
Some will see D2 and play Dsus2, which omits the third. Same notation, different interpretation.
Actually it replaces the 3rd with the 2nd but otherwise ....
correct if they see a D2 and play a Dsus2 it's the same chord called by a different name.
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  #30  
Old 06-15-2009, 01:11 PM
dthumb dthumb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb56 View Post
That may be true but, if they see a C2 and play a Cadd9 they are playing a different chord. It may sound fine there, but it is a different chord.


Actually it replaces the 3rd with the 2nd but otherwise ....
correct if they see a D2 and play a Dsus2 it's the same chord called by a different name.
A C2 cannot be a Cmin IF the 3rd is replaced with the D....a C2 is a C2 and could be played with or without the 3rd while the C9 would indicate a raised/higher toned 9 and a C7 add 9 would imply playing all notes....at least to me anyway..and it seems to work when I use that same logic to play others' notations...usually.
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