Question for RainSong Black Ice finish guitar owners

[Methos1979]

Do you or have you owned a RainSong guitar in their Black Ice finish? I'm currently considering one online because it meets most of my criteria for a specific RS guitar model that does not come along all that often. In a perfect world it would be the RS Vintage model as I like the look and tone of those models. Conversely, I've never been all that big a fan of the Black Ice since its inception a decade ago. So while this one is not perfect, it does save me several hundred dollars and 3-4 month wait for a custom order.

I've done a lot of research via posts here. Back then from 2012 through to probably 2017 or so there were a lot of posts about the Black Ice guitars with a lot of folks saying they really liked the finish, finding it striking. After that the frequency sort of falls off to the occasional post, most often just someone selling one in the classifieds. Part of RainSong's selling point for the Black Ice models is that each and every guitar has a completely different look as they customize each, there is no 'template' to the look of the tops.

To me, it looks more like they just took a whole bunch of carbon fiber cloth scraps off the factory floor and put them in the top mold haphazardly to achieve this look then marketed it as 'Black Ice'. Sort of like when carrot farmers took all the deformed and unattractive carrots they couldn't sell and put them through a mechanical shaving process that yielded 'baby carrots'. They took the scrap they couldn't sell and turned it into gold. Smart.

Anyway, after 2017 or so the mention of the Black Ice models seem to drastically fall off in posts. I'm just wondering for those that still have these models (or maybe had them in the past) feel about the finish today? Did anyone (like me) not love the finish but bought one anyway and came to love it? Or maybe it's the opposite and you once loved it but then came to sort of fall out of love with it and sold it off. I'd love to hear your thoughts, especially from those that gigged with them. How was the reaction from the crowd? RainSong has begun to offer 'colorized' versions I suppose in an attempt to re-invigorate the line. I find some of those more attractive than plain black.

I know that as far as tone goes, the Black Ice models are the same (relatively speaking) as the CO models, brighter, jangly and mid forward as compared to the Vintage SFT models and the hybrid models which have/had a tonally mellowing effect at the cost of a little volume, at least in the Vintage line. I've owned several so I'm well aware of those differences. The one I'm looking at now is growing on me a little as the Black Ice is not as 'busy' as some with larger and therefore less geometric shapes. I'm also not a huge fan of that very wide abalone sound hole ring. Combined with the black finish it just pops huge.

Thoughtful comments appreciated.

[steelvibe]

I have no personal opinion or experience with any Black Ice RainSong guitars- heck, I've not even seen one in real life. I'm a little surprised your interest in RainSong recently as you mentioned after having the APLE that you disliked the neck? Did you decide that it is no longer a deal breaker for some reason? Just curious.

[jdinco]

I didn't think much of the black ice when I first saw them, over time they kinda grew on me and I think they are OK for looks now. Reading your post, it really sounds like you would be compromising a lot of "don't likes" buying the used one. We both know you would be happiest getting EXACTLY what you want...I've made the same mistake many times. Good Luck with your choice either way.

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

I have no personal opinion or experience with any Black Ice RainSong guitars- heck, I've not even seen one in real life. I'm a little surprised your interest in RainSong recently as you mentioned after having the APLE that you disliked the neck? Did you decide that it is no longer a deal breaker for some reason? Just curious.

I have not owned the APLE for several years now and I don't remember saying I didn't like the neck. Although I might of mentioned that it was not my 'preferred' neck shape back then as I definitely had a strong preference for more of the beefier Mod V necks back then. I do remember not liking the Fishman Prefix-T pickup system all that much and that has not changed.

These days I seem to be much less picky about neck shapes within reason. Since the APLE I've owned two Shorty models in quick succession - a stock CH-OM1000NSX and very shortly after that a N-OM1000NSX. The Nashville (a one-of-a-kind custom) remains and is a terrific guitar. I really like both the neck shape and slightly more flat fretboard as it very closely matches my Froggy Bottom neck and fretboard. Even the 2 & 3/16" string spacing is the same on both.

We have found that about 60% of the gigs we are booking these days are acoustic-only shows. The Nashville is a little too quiet so that's why I'm looking into a RainSong dread but looking for one with a short scale as I definitely still prefer that to long scale. I've been using the Froggy Bottom for the acoustic shows and it's great but I'm always so paranoid about dinging it up in the tight spaces we play as well as putting a lot of wear and tear on it.

So finding a RS short scale dread with the LR Baggs StagePro system on it has been something I've been keeping my eye out for the past few months. While RainSong will do a short scale (NS) neck on any guitar at no extra charge it does me a 3-4 month wait plus of course full price.

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by jdinaz

I didn't think much of the black ice when I first saw them, over time they kinda grew on me and I think they are OK for looks now. Reading your post, it really sounds like you would be compromising a lot of "don't likes" buying the used one. We both know you would be happiest getting EXACTLY what you want...I've made the same mistake many times. Good Luck with your choice either way.

You're not wrong but part of the issue is that I've never played a RS dread so I don't even know if I'll like the sound and even more so, the body size. I figure if I find one used - even if it's not exactly what I want - then I can always sell it off and not lose any money. Or if I find I don't mind the shape/size I can always do a custom order then and still have the used one to keep me going until the new custom is completed and sell it then. Win-win. And who knows, I might just end up loving (or at least liking enough) the Black Ice model to just keep it and save myself a grand.

As for going the custom order route to get 'exactly what you want', that is also a double-edged sword. You think you know what you want but oftentimes it is only a best-guess and even if you guess right there is no guarantee that the custom order will actually deliver exactly what you want. I've found that no guitar is perfect and there's always something that could be done better which if you're not careful can lead to a lot of custom orders that you pay full price for - and wait a long time to get - only to end up selling at a loss.

This was something I learned the hard way through multiple custom orders of Emerald guitars. These days I much prefer to buy other people's custom orders and save time and money!!

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

I have not owned the APLE for several years now and I don't remember saying I didn't like the neck. Although I might of mentioned that it was not my 'preferred' neck shape back then as I definitely had a strong preference for more of the beefier Mod V necks back then....

These days I seem to be much less picky about neck shapes within reason. Since the APLE I've owned two Shorty models in quick succession - a stock CH-OM1000NSX and very shortly after that a N-OM1000NSX. The Nashville (a one-of-a-kind custom) remains and is a terrific guitar. I really like both the neck shape and slightly more flat fretboard as it very closely matches my Froggy Bottom neck and fretboard. Even the 2 & 3/16" string spacing is the same on both.

Okay, I don't remember your exact words but I know you sold it in part because of the neck- so apologies if I didn't get that exactly right.

I agree that no guitar is perfect (even custom orders) and that you sometimes just have to compromise a bit. And with all the custom orders you have done there probably is no person more qualified than yourself to speak to this. I've been taking a closer look at RainSong again myself even though I swore I could never get along with the neck. Time has taught me that I like necks on the chunkier end overall- it is really thin necks I can't stand (ahem... Breedlove).

RainSongs just sound so darn good, I think it may have something to do with the "Projection Tuned Layering". I don't think that is a gimmick either as it is probably a bit like what tapping tops in the wood builds do. Very responsive tops for the type of playing that I do with a light touch.

Sounds like even though you may not know what you want that you at least have a good plan to get you there. If the Froggy is a keeper than you have at least gotten that far.

[SpruceTop]

I may be buying a new RainSong Black Ice BI-DR1000N2 this weekend as I played one today, the first-ever Black Ice I've played, and think the Black Ice looks really Cool. *It sounds similar to the Classic Series which in other words means pretty much full-on, unadulterated RainSong Carbon tone, and that's doubly Cool!

Done! More to come in a separate thread.

[DethWshBkr]

I absolutely love my BI.

I like carbon. I like the normal 3k weave. But the black ice uses multiple different weaves, other than just the normal 3k, so it clearly isn't a "use for scraps". Although I'm sure there are some in there, the different weaves tell me it's an intentional design.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by DethWshBkr

I absolutely love my BI.

I like carbon. I like the normal 3k weave. But the black ice uses multiple different weaves, other than just the normal 3k, so it clearly isn't a "use for scraps". Although I'm sure there are some in there, the different weaves tell me it's an intentional design.

Beautiful RainSong BI-JM3000!

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Beautiful RainSong BI-JM3000!

Agreed. They look the best in direct sunlight where all those angles and weaves going in different directions really pop.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

Agreed. They look the best in direct sunlight where all those angles and weaves going in different directions really pop.

Just buy one. You know you’re going to.

I mean this is in the nicest possible way, but you have the most acute case of Serial GAS that I think I’ve ever observed in the AGF.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that

[Melt in the Sun]

You looking at those 25th anniversary blue ones with the offset soundhole? They sure look cool.

I will say - I played a CO-WS with the offset soundhole and it was by far the worst-sounding carbon guitar I have ever heard. Honky, thin, terrible all around. It made my shopping companion question my sanity in buying a CF guitar at all...good thing they had some others there to try.

[jricc]

Originally Posted by DethWshBkr

I absolutely love my BI.

I like carbon. I like the normal 3k weave. But the black ice uses multiple different weaves, other than just the normal 3k, so it clearly isn't a "use for scraps". Although I'm sure there are some in there, the different weaves tell me it's an intentional design.

Looks great! Love my "conventional" CH-OM Rainsong. Im sure yours is wonderful too

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by DethWshBkr

I absolutely love my BI.

I like carbon. I like the normal 3k weave. But the black ice uses multiple different weaves, other than just the normal 3k, so it clearly isn't a "use for scraps".

That’s a great looking guitar! I got to play a used one of these at GC many years ago and was surprised at how comfortable it was for the size. Maybe the tight waist? I also love the no cutaway look- sure wish RainSong would do a non-cutaway OM.

[Frettingflyer]

Hi Scott, for more volume you should also look at the WS, just to muddy the waters. I had one when I had the Shorty and the sound was fantastic. Mine was a WS1000, I have had some shoulder issues and found the lower bout too big for the way I prefer to hold the guitar but when standing it was great.
Funny, I have been circling back to Rainsong lately, played a N1 neck and liked it much better. I have been keeping an eye out for an OM N1 for sale or considering a BI like you.
Good luck in this latest quest.