Pass it on or pay it forward

[Tyeetime]

This has only happened to me once, and I didn't know what was going on. I assumed the woman that paid for my coffee saw me in her rear view mirror and thought I was cute. When I told my wife about it she clued me in to what was really going on.

I tend to agree with the OP. This seems kind of a shallow and more of a quick "good job by me" gesture. Of course I understand that these same people may be also giving to those that need too, so random acts of kindness are not bad. But I wouldn't participate either.

[Jamolay]

I am with the OP completely here.

It is great to do things for others, but buying a luxury item (donuts) for well enough off people that they can drive nice cars through a DD drive through really does nothing. In fact I would be upset if someone did that for me, not grateful.

I would also argue that the first person who paid for the donuts is imposing something on the others behind them for the sake of their own ego.

There are many ways to give back or be supportive of others. I thing the donut line thing is not a good one.

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by Tyeetime

This has only happened to me once, and I didn't know what was going on. I assumed the woman that paid for my coffee saw me in her rear view mirror and thought I was cute. When I told my wife about it she clued me in to what was really going on.

I tend to agree with the OP. This seems kind of a shallow and more of a quick "good job by me" gesture. Of course I understand that these same people may be also giving to those that need too, so random acts of kindness are not bad. But I wouldn't participate either.

Any act of generosity or kindness can be dismissed as being about the “emit payoff” for the person that is being generous or kind. Some folks refer to this as “ethical narcissism”: the person cares about how their act reflects on them or how it makes them feel, and they are not much interested in the effect on the receiver.

Unless you know the person very well, you don’t know what their motives are, and IMO, only the most narcissistic people should be presumed to be that self-centered.

[619TF]

Originally Posted by KevWind

So explaining what was going on, is "pressuring" seems as if the OP did not feel much pressured given he paid what his order was . Doesn't seem like any more "pressure" than say the person in the Santa suite with the bell and bucket standing right at the entrance to the store ...
And the notion the OP raised (and the only part that I addressed ) was an intellectual exercise/question about "the most good" not pressure. Which is a valid question, but one that can have more than one valid answer..

So YES what was happing (including the OP's action , which BTW I did not condemn in any way) it all seems like a positive to me ....YMMV

Santa at store entrance isn't handing you an item you ordered so not the same at all. "Explanation" came with expectation AFAIC and so yes, undue pressure. If the question was truly about the most good it was in response to this pressure to pay for folks who can afford it otherwise. I have no issue with doing right by my fellow human but this is more of an ego booster to the person doing the giving and nothing to do with positive vibes for others even if that is a side effect. As someone who couldn't even consider spending $7 for donuts to begin with while working double shifts to pay my rent and regular food bills I understand how people who have money might feel this is a grand gesture but for folks like me it's just another way to squeeze me for something I can't afford and making me feel bad about my own economic situation. Is that truly the most good or positive in any way? I think not.

[Mr. Jelly]

I find the interesting part is the peer pressure that is being used both at DD and here on the forum.

I was taught that when someone does something for you that you owe them. It made me give a lot of thought as to why people do things. Things like self-gratification and manipulation to start. You are either with us or against us.

[Tnfiddler]

Originally Posted by buddyhu

Any act of generosity or kindness can be dismissed as being about the “emit payoff” for the person that is being generous or kind. Some folks refer to this as “ethical narcissism”: the person cares about how their act reflects on them or how it makes them feel, and they are not much interested in the effect on the receiver.

Unless you know the person very well, you don’t know what their motives are, and IMO, only the most narcissistic people should be presumed to be that self-centered.

^^^^AGREE^^^^

Why does there have to be a motivation behind it other than an act of kindness? Assuming that there is, denigrates the act. If someone is automatically suspicious of someone’s intentions and tries to make it about that person trying to make themselves look or feel better, I’m sorry you feel that way. There have been many times I’ve walked into a store or restaurant, in uniform and go to pay and be told that I’ve been taken care of. Folks, that makes my day! I don’t look for a nefarious purpose behind it, I accept it as kindness and go on about my day.

[Tyeetime]

Originally Posted by buddyhu

Any act of generosity or kindness can be dismissed as being about the “emit payoff” for the person that is being generous or kind. Some folks refer to this as “ethical narcissism”: the person cares about how their act reflects on them or how it makes them feel, and they are not much interested in the effect on the receiver.

Unless you know the person very well, you don’t know what their motives are, and IMO, only the most narcissistic people should be presumed to be that self-centered.

Yes, the motive to give to a homeless person or to an accountant in a BMW behind you may be exactly the same. The dopamine hit is no different. I tried not to come off as too judgemental, because I know the world needs all the kindness it can get right now. But compared to years ago, the "like button" mentality of today cannot be ignored. This is only my opinion only of course, and I don't discount the gesture for those that see value in it, but I would never participate in this scenario.

[Tnfiddler]

Originally Posted by 619TF

Santa at store entrance isn't handing you an item you ordered so not the same at all. "Explanation" came with expectation AFAIC and so yes, undue pressure. If the question was truly about the most good it was in response to this pressure to pay for folks who can afford it otherwise. I have no issue with doing right by my fellow human but this is more of an ego booster to the person doing the giving and nothing to do with positive vibes for others even if that is a side effect. As someone who couldn't even consider spending $7 for donuts to begin with while working double shifts to pay my rent and regular food bills I understand how people who have money might feel this is a grand gesture but for folks like me it's just another way to squeeze me for something I can't afford and making me feel bad about my own economic situation. Is that truly the most good or positive in any way? I think not.

You’d be surprised at the amount of people that DON’T have a lot of money, who are the most giving! You’re automatically assuming that this is wealthy people trying to make themselves feel better and pressure you into doing the same. What’s if it’s just an average Joe who wants to be nice? This, “self-gratification” ideology discredits kind and nice people. I can promise you that in 28 years of law enforcement and going to war twice, I’ve seen the worst that mankind is possible of and that can easily make a person suspicious of ANY and EVERY thing you see, but we can’t live our lives that way. Just accept that there are loving, kind and selfless people out there who do things for others WITHOUT a motive other than being loving and kind.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by 619TF

Santa at store entrance isn't handing you an item you ordered so not the same at all. "Explanation" came with expectation AFAIC and so yes, undue pressure. If the question was truly about the most good it was in response to this pressure to pay for folks who can afford it otherwise. I have no issue with doing right by my fellow human but this is more of an ego booster to the person doing the giving and nothing to do with positive vibes for others even if that is a side effect. As someone who couldn't even consider spending $7 for donuts to begin with while working double shifts to pay my rent and regular food bills I understand how people who have money might feel this is a grand gesture but for folks like me it's just another way to squeeze me for something I can't afford and making me feel bad about my own economic situation. Is that truly the most good or positive in any way? I think not.

The world is how you perceive it,,, not the other way around, as is often misconstrued ... Cheers

[J Patrick]

Originally Posted by Tnfiddler

You’d be surprised at the amount of people that DON’T have a lot money, who are the most giving! You’re automatically assuming that this is wealthy people trying to make themselves feel better and pressure you into doing the same. What’s if it’s just an average Joe who wants to be nice? This, “self-gratification” ideology discredits kind and nice people. I can promise you that in 28 years of law enforcement and going to war twice, I’ve seen the worst that mankind is possible of and that can easily make a person suspicious of ANY and EVERY thing you see, but we can’t live our lives that way. Just accept that there are loving, kind and selfless people out there who do things for others WITHOUT a motive other than being loving and kind.

….I fully agree….questioning the motives of a giving person is ridiculous….

[619TF]

Originally Posted by Tnfiddler

You’d be surprised at the amount of people that DON’T have a lot of money, who are the most giving! You’re automatically assuming that this is wealthy people trying to make themselves feel better and pressure you into doing the same. What’s if it’s just an average Joe who wants to be nice? This, “self-gratification” ideology discredits kind and nice people. I can promise you that in 28 years of law enforcement and going to war twice, I’ve seen the worst that mankind is possible of and that can easily make a person suspicious of ANY and EVERY thing you see, but we can’t live our lives that way. Just accept that there are loving, kind and selfless people out there who do things for others WITHOUT a motive other than being loving and kind.

Assuming it's the wealthy? No, I didn't do that. Not did I assume it was only to make them feel good though that's clearly a factor if you've read the research on charitable giving. I know even the so called average Joe has more than I and I don't appreciate being told or even asked to give when I'm struggling myself. Yes, even the average Joe should have more compassion and give through the proper networks rather than applying social pressure on any random person. That's the part I find to be less than positive about this ridiculous trend.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by J Patrick

….I fully agree….questioning the motives of a giving person is ridiculous….

As long as there are not some nefarious strings attached , I agree.. Because not only is that their personal problem/issue to live with,,,, But a self aggrandizement motive is functionally irrelevant, if there is actual benefit to those receiving the gift.

[Tyeetime]

The donut drive through example also carries an implied expectation from you, kind rooted in guilt. So it isn't just about judging the motives of others.

[Neil K Walk]

I've seen that, and it's a by product of the social media lemmings following the example of their idols online. What you guys are seeing is the modern day version of charity. It's false and self serving and does nothing but expand waistlines IMO.

What really needs to happen is people need to take that money and buy socks and toiletries and take them down to the homeless shelter. Now that is true "paying it forward."

[H165]

the average Joe should have more compassion and give through the proper networks

This particular statement applies to me, I guess. I strongly disagree.

I was a typical small cog on very large corporate machine. This particular corporate machine awarded workers who donated to through the proper networks (defined by the corporation). Workers who did not donate the recommended amount were punished by various means - mostly lack of promotion and lack of pay raises. The corporate-selected charities sometimes had problems like mismanagement of funds or midirection of funds or theft of donated funds.

I can (and do) decide who the "proper networks" are, and yours might not match mine. I generally skip the "networks" altogether and donate or volunteer locally or personally.

Interestying how this thread has turned into a philosophic dicussion.