Intonation

[Teleplucker]

I have an honest question for those of you with experience in the nylon string world. I own a Rick Turner nylon string guitar and I have owned several other nylon string guitars in the years that I have been playing. Compared to steel string guitars nylon string guitars often sound out of tune when they are played up the neck. I have noticied this on guitars that I have owned and on many recordings and videos of folks playing what appeared to be very nice nylon string instrument.
Is this my imagination?

[Gitfiddlemann]

It might not be.
The action up the neck on nylon string guitars, especially classical models, will generally be higher than steel. Also, many players (i’m guilty too) will apply more pressure than necessary to fret strings.
Both those factors will impact intonation more so than steel strings.
So, I would say that you ears are probably right.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by Teleplucker

I have an honest question for those of you with experience in the nylon string world. I own a Rick Turner nylon string guitar and I have owned several other nylon string guitars in the years that I have been playing. Compared to steel string guitars nylon string guitars often sound out of tune when they are played up the neck. I have noticied this on guitars that I have owned and on many recordings and videos of folks playing what appeared to be very nice nylon string instrument.
Is this my imagination?

Randall,
What gauge strings are you using on your Turner guitar?

The harder strings intonate much better as a rule.

You're a fabulous player, by the way!

HE

[Teleplucker]

Thanks for the compliment, coming from you Howard that means a lot. The strings on the guitar now are GHSMA2390. They are high tension for sure but for some reason I don't see what gauge they are. If there is a better option I would be glad to try it.
I don't play my nylon string guitar too often but occasionally I get a job that calls for one. I recently did a funeral service and the request was for Classical Gas. ( it was the selection that this lady had had as her wedding recessional).
I just find that getting every thing in tune up and down the neck was more of a struggle than with a steel string guitar.
I have heard other really great guitar players on Nylon string guitars and thought they sounded a little off up the neck as well.

[ameriken]

My understanding is classicals just naturally have some intonation issues up the neck, especially on the g string. A good set of strings will pretty much stay in tune within a few cents but a bad set of strings as well as higher action can affect the intonation even more.

There are 'compensated' saddles out there that try to offset the natural intonation problems.

[redir]

It is literally impossible to tune a guitar but we an get as close as possible and some get a lot closer then others. Nylon strings are pretty notorious for intonation problems for some of the reasons mentioned and more. Particularly the G string seems to give most people a headache.

The string type, tension and even the brand of strings contribute to intonation problems, but so does playing technique and string height action.

In a nut shell when you press the string and stretch them they go sharp and it gets increasingly worse as you move up the fretboard. So to compensate for that we set the saddle further back then it's theoretical position and then tune it or intonate it at the 12th fret. This creates a situation where all the notes up to the 12th fret are a little less sharp or to better understand it the notes have actually become more flat. In fact each not is a bit more flat then the one before it. In doing so you can actually make it so that the notes after the magical 12th fret start to become flat.

So to fully compensate for that what you can do is move the frets closer to the nut or just cut the end of the fretbard a little bit off which essentially does the same thing. Then finally to make it even better then that you can then compensate each string at the nut by filing back in spots and or adding bone shims to lengthen the slot over the fretboard.

In most cases a normal set up is good enough for most people as long as it's done well. But some people have really good ears and even the slight intonation problem will drive them nuts. It's not uncommon for classical guitarists to add pressure or bend a string on certain pieces to correct that using pure technique. The other option is to tune specifically to the key of each piece.

In the end it's a never ending battle.

[Teleplucker]

Thanks for the replies.