vintage Yamakis vs Martin D Series

[manyguitars]

Hi All;
This is bound to attact some nasty replies but, seriously, anyone
out there spent time comparing old Yamakis to any or all of the
Martin D Series? This is my latest "project" (over and above creating
music in general).
My second unrelated question is: Any comments on the J-40M?
Many have stated it has a "big, well balanced" sound.
I used a "combo" picking style incorporating fingerpicking with strumming
and double-picking. So a little extra space is nice but not mandatory.

[bryantjudoman]

I have had a couple fine Yamaki guitars. The first one was a pristine 1970 yamaki ay351. It looked just like a martin d-35 with the 3 piece back. The second one is a 1974 deluxe folk with a mahogany 2 piece back. The are really nice sounding guitars...REALLY NICE. However they are simply not in the same league as any of the martins they wish to emulate. I,m not sure why, they look the same but the sound quality just isn't close. I sold the ay351 to help fund my gibson j-45. And the deluxe folk I still have as a beach guitar.

[Bear Davis]

I have an 84 D-68sw that was made by Yamaki. I love the guitar by my HD-28 is tonally superior.

[Wade Hampton]

I've played a few Yamakis but never owned any. To me, they were much like the Morris brand guitars that were made in Japan around the same time: good guitars, but none of them did much for me.

There are plenty of clunker Martins around, especially some (but not all) of those built in the 1970's. But from a tonal standpoint, the best Martins I've played soar above these other Japanese-made brands from that era.

The one exception to that that I would make are the acoustic guitars made by Tokai during the same era. Those can be sonically dazzling, but they're rare as hen's teeth over here in North America. I think I've played two and seen maybe two others in the forty-some years I've been aware of them.

Regarding the Martin J-40M, those are nice guitars. Forum regular Earl49 used one onstage for years up here in Alaska, before he skedaddled to the Lower 48. He can tell you more about that model than I can, as I've never owned one, but the people who play them tend to REALLY like them.

Yes, they're versatile instruments, equally at home with a pick or fingers.

Martin J-40M

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

The one exception to that that I would make are the acoustic guitars made by Tokai during the same era. Those can be sonically dazzling, but they're rare as hen's teeth over here in North America. I think I've played two and seen maybe two others in the forty-some years I've been aware of them.

I have never spent much time with Tokai acoustics but their Les Paul knock offs were about as good as it every got. Would sail you right up next to the real deal.

[Earl49]

Originally Posted by manyguitars

.....Any comments on the J-40M? Many have stated it has a "big, well balanced" sound.....

Wade Hampton alerted me to this thread. I owned a custom shop model based on a J-40 for 27 years, and it was an awesome guitar, intended to be my lifetime "keeper". They are one of the best kept secrets in the Martin standard line, IMO -- secret mostly for lack of current exposure. When I first became aware of them in the late 1980's many stores had them in stock, and J-40's were not too hard to find. But it has been a while since I've seen one in a store, even used. D-28's are common; J-40's not so much. Elderly usually has one in stock whenever I've looked at their web site, and sometimes lists used examples too. You don't see used J-40's very often. Them's that gots tend to keeps.

J-40 has a big and bold -- but still quite balanced -- voice. The tighter waist dials back the raw boominess of a dreadnought a bit, focusing the tone yet still leaving plenty of bass power. And the waist lets the guitar sit more solidly on either leg for finger picking purposes. But if you dig in, J-40 can hold its own with any D-28 at a bluegrass jam too -- and often did. I play about 70% finger picked with natural nails, and the louder J-40 voice helped offset my softer technique by giving more volume. My particular example also just LOVED to wear medium strings and especially get tuned down a full step D-d. It just bloomed tonally there, but was still a powerhouse at E-e tuning too.

So why do I no longer own such a great guitar? When ordering mine, I stayed with the stock model's MLO neck profile and 1-11/16" nut width that I was (then) used to playing. But twenty years later a touch of arthritis in my aging fretting hand made it challenging to play that particular neck geometry for more than a few minutes without pain. (I cannot play any Martin with a standard neck for more than 20 minutes without hand pain, but I have other guitars that I can play for 2-3 hours easily). It seemed wrong to keep such a good guitar in the closet untouched, so I finally sold it last summer. If I had the foresight back in 1990 to order a wider 1-3/4" or even 1-7/8" nut width, or perhaps a different soft V neck profile, I would still be playing it. Hindsight being 20/20........

[tippy5]

I played my 1972 Yamaki Folk Deluxe for 20 years. It suited my traveling and no case care. I can't believe one tequila night of my 20's I didn't step on it in my messed up room. The guitar has Zero tone. But it's durable.
I wore the fretboard and the frets down. Back in the days of sloppy gear tuners too.
It's hanging on my wall, plywood regalia, poly ochre sunburnt replete with dents.

For the heck of it I was GASsing on Goodwill.com musical instruments....and saw one. I was the final bidder at 109$. Goodwill gives you two pictures. So verifying decent saddle height and neck angle is impossible. I got the guitar and exact clone of mine with 1/4" string height and it still sounded modest. I drove down to Santa Barbara Goodwill and re-donated it immediately.

I would stick with Yari, Alvarez, Yamaha for tone. For careless traveling and letting it lay around a VW van and playing abroad the fruited plains they might suffice? For good feel or tone there are so many better sub $300 guitars that had better design and quality. OUCH.

[ship of fools]

It all comes down to what you like and honestly what the studio does, there are great old Yamaki's out there just like there are great Martin's out there and with enough work one can make most guitars sound fantastic when being recorded.
All I can tell you is that after 50+ years I know what I am looking for and when you have owned enough guitars you start to understand what you want to hear come out from any guitar not all guitars are the same ( obviously ) so its always best to have a variety of guitars ( for those who record mandatory ) and I also recommend do not look at the name tag but listen first and then decide if it deserves to be in your stable.
As for comparing sorry cant because they are different from each other and no 2 sound the same

[manyguitars]

Originally Posted by Earl49

Wade Hampton alerted me to this thread. I owned a custom shop model based on a J-40 for 27 years, and it was an awesome guitar, intended to be my lifetime "keeper". They are one of the best kept secrets in the Martin standard line, IMO -- secret mostly for lack of current exposure. When I first became aware of them in the late 1980's many stores had them in stock, and J-40's were not too hard to find. But it has been a while since I've seen one in a store, even used. D-28's are common; J-40's not so much. Elderly usually has one in stock whenever I've looked at their web site, and sometimes lists used examples too. You don't see used J-40's very often. Them's that gots tend to keeps.

J-40 has a big and bold -- but still quite balanced -- voice. The tighter waist dials back the raw boominess of a dreadnought a bit, focusing the tone yet still leaving plenty of bass power. And the waist lets the guitar sit more solidly on either leg for finger picking purposes. But if you dig in, J-40 can hold its own with any D-28 at a bluegrass jam too -- and often did. I play about 70% finger picked with natural nails, and the louder J-40 voice helped offset my softer technique by giving more volume. My particular example also just LOVED to wear medium strings and especially get tuned down a full step D-d. It just bloomed tonally there, but was still a powerhouse at E-e tuning too.

So why do I no longer own such a great guitar? When ordering mine, I stayed with the stock model's MLO neck profile and 1-11/16" nut width that I was (then) used to playing. But twenty years later a touch of arthritis in my aging fretting hand made it challenging to play that particular neck geometry for more than a few minutes without pain. (I cannot play any Martin with a standard neck for more than 20 minutes without hand pain, but I have other guitars that I can play for 2-3 hours easily). It seemed wrong to keep such a good guitar in the closet untouched, so I finally sold it last summer. If I had the foresight back in 1990 to order a wider 1-3/4" or even 1-7/8" nut width, or perhaps a different soft V neck profile, I would still be playing it. Hindsight being 20/20........

Earl49; Wow. That was a great reply and I relate to everything you
said. I have been watching for some example of a C neck with 1.75"
nut. And, you're right. Certain necks are much more forgiving of those
who have arthritis. Mine is thumb arthritis and I, like you am a natural
nails finger picker hybrid style player. So, that said, did all the J-40M's
have a v neck?

[Wade Hampton]

I’m not Earl, but I’ve never played any Martin J models that had V-shaped necks. Martin tends to put those only on guitars that were in their product lineup prior to WWII, and the first Martin J models didn’t come out until the 1980’s, if I remember correctly. So I doubt you’ll find any J model Martin’s with V-shaped necks unless they were special ordered that way.


whm

[guitar george]

In 1971 I went to buy my first guitar. I had a bit of money and the only brand I knew anything about was Martin. I was planning to buy a Martin, D-28, I think. When I went to Ward Music on Hastings Street they had just started selling Yamakis and were really pushing that brand. The salesman compared the Yamaki to a Martin and, because I had no clue, he convinced me to buy the Yamaki. It looked and sounded just like the Martin for about 1/3 the cost. I bought a Yamaki Deluxe Western. It has a zero fret and an adjustable saddle that can be raised or lowered by adjusting the screws on each end of the saddle. I have played that guitar all this time and still have it. Sounds pretty good compared to my other guitars and it is usually the one I leave out for friends and relatives to play. A 1971 Martin D-28 could be worth about $3,000.00 today while my Yamaki is worth about $300.00. Stupid me. Do you think it might be Brazilian rosewood?

YAMAKI (2).jpg YAMAKI (4).jpg

[manyguitars]

Originally Posted by guitar george

In 1971 I went to buy my first guitar. I had a bit of money and the only brand I knew anything about was Martin. I was planning to buy a Martin, D-28, I think. When I went to Ward Music on Hastings Street they had just started selling Yamakis and were really pushing that brand. The salesman compared the Yamaki to a Martin and, because I had no clue, he convinced me to buy the Yamaki. It looked and sounded just like the Martin for about 1/3 the cost. I bought a Yamaki Deluxe Western. It has a zero fret and an adjustable saddle that can be raised or lowered by adjusting the screws on each end of the saddle. I have played that guitar all this time and still have it. Sounds pretty good compared to my other guitars and it is usually the one I leave out for friends and relatives to play. A 1971 Martin D-28 could be worth about $3,000.00 today while my Yamaki is worth about $300.00. Stupid me. Do you think it might be Brazilian rosewood?

Attachment 4636 Attachment 4637

Hi George;
re: Yamakis and Martins
I am currently in a phase where I put my 3 active Martins
up against the Yamakis (note: the D18S is resting). I go
three guitars at a time and play them all for a week or two.
So far the Yamakis stand up very well and I realize "they
shouldn't". I am a hybrid player/natural nails but with a special
thumb pick. If anyone could recommend what they believe to be
the best strings for my Martins, maybe we would have a fair fight.
I used EJ 16s on the Yamakis. re: brazilian Once again people
will be ticked that I'm saying this but some of these Yamakis have
some really nice rosewood; and quite a variety as well. Similarly
there is quite a lot of variety in use for the guitar tops (mostly
cedar). Cedar is very common in classical guitars but for some
reason neither Martin nor Gibson gave it a passing thought. This
might be getting into the "luthier's wheelhouse" but is cedar known
to have a "clearer, cleaner sound"? I have given up on my Martins
but I am baffled, really. Another innovation often used is the Brass nut
and the zero fret. Comments?