Tonal Rhythm

[athair]

Hi, i would like to share a couple of thoughts about Tonal Rhythm, if possible: namely, would you say that by changing the scale (in a sense close to that of modulating, let´s say) a given pace of Tonal Rhythm could be either kept or modified (etc.) at some degree? Thanks everybody!! Greetings!!

ps: i´m not sure whether the Tonal Rhythm issue is of any relevance in jazz music (or at least, in modal jazz, broadly speaking).

[JanVigne]

I'll ask.

What's Tonal Rhythm?

[sweiss]

[macmanmatty]

toenail rhythm is a rhythm played on a slide guitar most likely lap steel with a deep-well socket on the big toe of you left foot and strumming with your right big toe (or picking with the individual toes). hence the name toenail rhythm. You pick it with right foots toenail (the longer the better). I do this all time when I am playing finger picked lead to give me a little more fuller sound and some back up. You generally want to use a 8 or 10 string lap steel. I use a 10 sting tuned GBDBDF#DACE you have a root major on the first 5 a minor 3rd on the next 4 aA 5th major on the next 4 a 5th 7th on the next 5 and minor 2nd on the first three. I want all of the triads of the chords to be one string away from each other because my right foot ain't as good as my right hand.

[mr. beaumont]

I'm famililar with the concept of melodic rhythms...is that what you're talking about OP?

[Howard Klepper]

Since this thread has devolved into a guessing game, I'll take a turn. My guess is that he's talking about the idea that tempo and pitch are linked. When a frequency of amplitude change drops below the audible pitch range it is heard as a sequence of rhythmic beats. So the idea is to match your tempo to your main pitch. For example, if you are in the key of A, and A is 440 hz, it will sound better (on this conjecture) if you make the number of beats per second in your tempo an integer factor of that pitch, for example 1.1 beats per second (1.1 x 400=440).

Of course, tone is not the same thing as pitch, and rhythm is not the same thing as tempo, so I could easily be wrong. But that's my best guess about what it is. Even if I'm right, though, I don't understand the question.

I didn't cheat by Googling, either.

[JoeCharter]

I think Howard is correct.

For those with $29 to spare: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.230...21102677690877

Originally Posted by athair

would you say that by changing the scale (in a sense close to that of modulating, let´s say) a given pace of Tonal Rhythm could be either kept or modified (etc.) at some degree?

I'd say yes.

[athair]

Thanks you all for your answers!!! Every answer has it´s own value (for different reasons)! The Tonal Rhythm is something closely related to (if not the same thing as) the underlying issue (or theory) in scale-degree´s sequences such as the well-known I-IV-V; I-V-VI-IV; etc. (I would say, even at risk of being wrong, that some Tonal Rhythm features are present in the jazz-like sequence II-V-I).

I admit that it is mainly a feature within classical music. For instance, take either the (so called) Perfect Cadence: V-I, or the Plagal Cadence: IV-I (here also, we might additionally see the link with the jazz sequence aforementioned...). The word Cadence means (at least as drawing from Latin original idea...) a "fall" (i don´t know if there be a better english word to illustrate this...). Then, i would say, that is the "visual" meaning of the Tonal Rhythm concept: namely, that of something that is about (and even, or perhaps mainly, expected) to fall, but at different speeds in each case (obviously, speed itself being a certain function of the gap between a given sound, chord, chord-sequence, etc. ...and the Root or Key: take a classical music piece; take for example the Beethoven´s violin concerto in D minor...well, in this case is meant to be such a relation to D minor).

Personally, i find quite interesting the following additional explanation of the concept: instead of talking about when is a given piece to fall (to put it very broadly) as the core relation defining Tonal Rhythm...at least in some musical pieces, the issue becomes empirically (audioperception-like...) a matter that easily lends itself to be defined as a sort of moving picture regarding emotions like sad-glad-struggling, and so on...so for example, one would often take or feel a struggling musical path as a lengthy one (depending on whether one´s temper be happy-like or not ).

I feel like writing a survey on Tonal Functions !

Greetings to everybody (to be true, i wasn´t sure of whether my post might have yielded any replies at all!! )

ps: thanks Joe!!! I would say yes, as well (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tq_9iSjxVc), but then let me ask you something else: ¿would you say why you´d say yes? (partially kidding here...i´m quite aware of the fact that for anyone to be able of explaining in a detailed fashion such a thing he should probably recall some Einstein´s theorem )

ps2: i´ve just read in wikipedia (spanish version) (under the Harmonic Rhythm label) the following statement: "...a common feature of the harmonic rhythm lies in the fact that it does accelerate when getting closer to the cadential processes..."

My definition above was pretty much inspired in something like that getting closer to the cadential process; my question was by no means meant to be taken in an altogether technical sense (actually, my intention was halfway between the Tonal Rhythm issue, whatever it meant to be, and changing scales and modulating...I´m not interested in bothering anyone at all with bizantine stuff...Neither in raising a sort of mess involving technicalities, etc.

ps3: the paper on tonal rhythm (seemingly, understood as a sort of accent theory linking cadence theory on one hand, and pitch theory, on the other) is available at http://mq.oxfordjournals.org/content...4/435.full.pdf. My apologies, if due...

[JanVigne]

After "the incident" of many years ago and the sad results of such empirical experimentation, I have sworn off any discussion even tangentially related to the Plagal Cadence.



But, I'll ask.


What does "Tonal Functions" mean?


And are those words really supposed to have capitals? I think not.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by athair

Thanks you all for your answers!!! Every answer has it´s own value (for different reasons)! The Tonal Rhythm is something closely related to (if not the same thing as) the underlying issue (or theory) in scale-degree´s sequences such as the well-known I-IV-V; I-V-VI-IV; etc. (I would say, even at risk of being wrong, that some Tonal Rhythm features are present in the jazz-like sequence II-V-I).

I admit that it is mainly a feature within classical music. For instance, take either the (so called) Perfect Cadence: V-I, or the Plagal Cadence: IV-I (here also, we might additionally see the link with the jazz sequence aforementioned...). The word Cadence means (at least as drawing from Latin original idea...) a "fall" (i don´t know if there be a better english word to illustrate this...). Then, i would say, that is the "visual" meaning of the Tonal Rhythm concept: namely, that of something that is about (and even, or perhaps mainly, expected) to fall, but at different speeds in each case (obviously, speed itself being a certain function of the gap between a given sound, chord, chord-sequence, etc. ...and the Root or Key: take a classical music piece; take for example the Beethoven´s violin concerto in D minor...well, in this case is meant to be such a relation to D minor).

Personally, i find quite interesting the following additional explanation of the concept: instead of talking about when is a given piece to fall (to put it very broadly) as the core relation defining Tonal Rhythm...at least in some musical pieces, the issue becomes empirically (audioperception-like...) a matter that easily lends itself to be defined as a sort of moving picture regarding emotions like sad-glad-struggling, and so on...so for example, one would often take or feel a struggling musical path as a lengthy one (depending on whether one´s temper be happy-like or not ).

I feel like writing a survey on Tonal Functions !

Greetings to everybody (to be true, i wasn´t sure of whether my post might have yielded any replies at all!! )

ps: thanks Joe!!! I would say yes, as well (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tq_9iSjxVc), but then let me ask you something else: ¿would you say why you´d say yes? (partially kidding here...i´m quite aware of the fact that for anyone to be able of explaining in a detailed fashion such a thing he should probably recall some Einstein´s theorem )

ps2: i´ve just read in wikipedia (spanish version) (under the Harmonic Rhythm label) the following statement: "...a common feature of the harmonic rhythm lies in the fact that it does accelerate when getting closer to the cadential processes..."

My definition above was pretty much inspired in something like that getting closer to the cadential process; my question was by no means meant to be taken in an altogether technical sense (actually, my intention was halfway between the Tonal Rhythm issue, whatever it meant to be, and changing scales and modulating...I´m not interested in bothering anyone at all with bizantine stuff...Neither in raising a sort of mess involving technicalities, etc.

ps3: the paper on tonal rhythm (seemingly, understood as a sort of accent theory linking cadence theory on one hand, and pitch theory, on the other) is available at http://mq.oxfordjournals.org/content...4/435.full.pdf. My apologies, if due...

There are a lot of long words in there, Miss; we're naught but humble pirates.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by athair

Thanks you all for your answers!!! Every answer has it´s own value (for different reasons)! The Tonal Rhythm is something closely related to (if not the same thing as) the underlying issue (or theory) in scale-degree´s sequences such as the well-known I-IV-V; I-V-VI-IV; etc. (I would say, even at risk of being wrong, that some Tonal Rhythm features are present in the jazz-like sequence II-V-I).

Are you talking about "harmonic rhythm"? (rate of chord change).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_rhythm

Originally Posted by athair

ps2: i´ve just read in wikipedia (spanish version) (under the Harmonic Rhythm label) the following statement: "...a common feature of the harmonic rhythm lies in the fact that it does accelerate when getting closer to the cadential processes..."

Ah ha...

Originally Posted by athair

My definition above was pretty much inspired in something like that getting closer to the cadential process; my question was by no means meant to be taken in an altogether technical sense (actually, my intention was halfway between the Tonal Rhythm issue, whatever it meant to be,
and changing scales and modulating...I´m not interested in bothering anyone at all with bizantine stuff...Neither in raising a sort of mess involving technicalities, etc.

ps3: the paper on tonal rhythm (seemingly, understood as a sort of accent theory linking cadence theory on one hand, and pitch theory, on the other) is available at http://mq.oxfordjournals.org/content...4/435.full.pdf. My apologies, if due...

Seeing as I have to pay money to read that, I'm none the wiser, although it does seem to be something different from harmonic rhythm.

At least, you seem to know more about it than anyone else here . You may want a site with a higher proportion of erudite contributors:
http://forum.emusictheory.com/list.php?5
(No offence to current readers )

[athair]

I actually see some interest in tonal function theory (the analysis of scale-degree´s features such as dominant (V), subdominant, intermediate (III) qualities, etc.) for no other reason that i, personally, enjoy whenever a given tone turns smoothly into a new tone. I indeed, and perhaps unwarrantedly, link that one with some cadential process stuff.

Fazool, are you by any chance a cousin of Jack Sparrow at all?

Greetings!!

ps: Thanks JonPR!! Yeah...not only i was talking about harmonic rhythm, but i was also partially wrong: there seems to be a (rather purely analytical) relation as to the sound pitches at given times (or points in time) within a cadential process, so that by changing the former ones over certain paths the last one could be either neutralized, etc. I found some interesting paragraphs in a free version of the Oxford paper (but can´t manage now to bring it to AGF ...i´ll try to get it next...Did you try opening it by means of a second, or a third, click in the adress link i´ve pasted?)

Ps2: so far as i can understand, anyway, it seems like the harmonic rhythm "vulgar" definition would fit quite well for several purposes, on one hand, but also that the Oxford paper goes way far into waters that make sense only for art critics but not a single bit for a musician, on the other.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by JanVigne

After "the incident" of many years ago and the sad results of such empirical experimentation, I have sworn off any discussion even tangentially related to the Plagal Cadence.

A plague on the plagal cadence!

Seriously, that means turning away from rock's most popular cadence. (Not that it really needs much discussing...)

Originally Posted by JanVigne

But, I'll ask.


What does "Tonal Functions" mean?

I, IV, V, etc.
Normally termed harmonic function, I guess; the functions of chords within tonal harmony (major and minor keys).

Originally Posted by JanVigne

And are those words really supposed to have capitals? I think not.

I agree. We're not German!

[JoeCharter]

Originally Posted by athair

ps: thanks Joe!!! I would say yes, as well (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tq_9iSjxVc), but then let me ask you something else: ¿would you say why you´d say yes? (partially kidding here...i´m quite aware of the fact that for anyone to be able of explaining in a detailed fashion such a thing he should probably recall some Einstein´s theorem )

The answer has to be positive. How can it not be?

As to why and what to make of the info, that's a separate debate...

[JanVigne]

"A plague on the plagal cadence!

Seriously, that means turning away from rock's most popular cadence."







I knew that.



Not really.