Owning a song, mastering left hand and right hand, how important is it...

[stuartb]

How important is it for you to really own a song, every nuance of how you will strike the strings from a right hand perspective, the subtlest bend or vibrato from the left hand. I'm referring to solo fingerstyle. May not be as applicable for other.

Is it important that you really master each song you work on or does it not matter much to you.

I'll join the opinions as they are posted.

best,

Stuart

[Fleabyte]

I feel this is very important. Not just with fingerstyle but with strumming too. Right hand dynamics, pick angle, attack and percussive effects are often overlooked with strumming. things like picking out string groups etc...

I have only been playing a couple of years so - so i am only just starting to attempt solo fingersyle pieces, I am trying to remain concious of the subtle aspects you mention and I am experimenting with nail length, dynamics etc.

I think as long as you are concious of these things and you try to perfect them - your music will always sound better overall.

[jbhiller]

Great question. I really am struggling with this myself.

I keep reminding myself that this is a hobby. I only play for my own enjoyment or for those listening. That said, I like to make things sound smooth and I get irritated with sloppiness.

Sometimes I feel like it's ok to not master stuff because it's such an overwhelming task--to play things perfectly can be difficult when it's fingerstyle.

Sorry I'm of no help, but I'm curios to see what advice/opinions you (and now me too) receive.

Great post.

[Christian Reno]

For me it is more important to play songs differently each time until I get the arrangement and feel that I like the best. Then I only use that as a guide and I still try to change it up as often as possible.

The variations can be very subtle, but they count for a lot. Playing something exactly the same every time would make playing a task. I think it is best to let the classical guys have that world.

[jbhiller]

Originally Posted by Christian Reno

Playing something exactly the same every time would make playing a task. I think it is best to let the classical guys have that world.

Point well made. Perhaps that helps define it for me: I guess I'm cool with variations and allowing things to flow differently, but I'd like to get rid of mistakes that cut into arrangements (bot mine and those of others). When I get sloppy and it detracts from the arrangement I'm not happy. It happens too much too.

[Ridgeback]

For me, music is all about the mood and the moment. A song that moves me to great phrasing and careful, clean guitar work one day will leave me cold (and sloppy) a week later?

Music is in the soul, and the soul's affected by so many factors. So the music, inevitably, changes with it. You can hear that in even the greatest players; they seldom play a song exactly, note-for-note, twice in a row. Except Paul Simon, that is.....

I also try to make every song my own. And not to play them so often trying to get them recorded note-perfect that, by the time I get there, I couldn't care less whether I ever hear the song again!

YMMV....

[Doug Young]

I didn't see the original question being about playing everything the same every time. You can vary tunes and still be a stickler for phrasing, vibrato, tone, whatever. Few players are as meticulous as Pierre Bensusan, for example, yet he improvises quite a bit. I think playing well in any style requires mastering all the subtlties. If you want it to sound good, one way or another, you'll have to pay attention to details.

[Short Balding G]

Good morning Stuart. How important - Important, within my current skill set.

I am a bit humbled following Doug Young's posting, as he is a sublime, skilled entertainer. I thought you might appreciate a reply from a beginning - intermediate fingerstyle blues player's perspective.

I feel sooo confident when playing before others when I own the right hand for my music. It is an extreme pleasure when the left hand can embelish verse to verse. Owning a song, to me, is relative to my current technique and mastery of the groove. An example is Broonzy's song Pig Meat Strut (early rag version of Hey, Hey). Over the past 2 years I have seen this song grow under my hands. My right hand much more so than my left. Early in my learning of this song I mastered the correct fretted notes. Then the right hand groove began to settle in. The ability to find the empty spaces in the driving bass and even special bass runs (new to the recordings of Broonzy and Braswell playing this song) in between lyrics developed slowly. Finally I am figuring out how to tease some of the melody notes with my right hand. I hear this song and am able to appreciate how more mature and fluid I can be playing it. Without thinking I can add or setle to a bass line depending on the lyric or even (experienced this past Open Mic) by looking at the audience for cues of their enjoyment.

The nuances, colors, and subtilties are all second to me establishing a groove for my genre of music. I see, for me, that the right hand must master groove to support the rest of the song. Without the driving grooved bass line, my music falls short.

Longer post than I expected to write. Humbly,my opinion is, mastery of right hand and left hand is important, but can not precede mastery of the groove.

Best wishes Stuart in your playing. You have a collection of guitars that I dream off.

Eric -

[rick-slo]

Perceptive post Eric. I was reading the thread and thinking along those lines. Other than for steady 4/4 tune with every note on the beat or half beat (church music like) getting into the rhythmic groove really makes the playing experience come alive. For mid tempo and faster pieces rhythmic phrasing (within a measure or two usually) and accenting are a big part of what owning a piece is about. At a more leisurely tempo or on longer held notes in a faster piece coloring individual notes takes on added significance.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by stuartb

...Is it important that you really master each song you work on or does it not matter much to you.

Hi Stuart…
You bet it is to me.

I feel I own a song when I can give that attention to detail as I'm playing it without it being ''work'', and it is fun to own one to that point. I don't always play them note-for-note, and the real question for me is ''When is a song arrangement ever finished?"

There are songs in the arsenal I'm still sculpting and tweaking after 20 years - I'll be playing and just see it a different way this time through.

[Short Balding G]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Perceptive post Eric. I was reading the thread and thinking along those lines. Other than for steady 4/4 tune with every note on the beat or half beat (church music like) getting into the rhythmic groove really makes the playing experience come alive. For mid tempo and faster pieces rhythmic phrasing (within a measure or two usually) and accenting are a big part of what owning a piece is about. At a more leisurely tempo or on longer held notes in a faster piece coloring individual notes takes on added significance.

Thanks Rick-slo for summarizing so eloquently.

I hope that this does not divert Stuart's query. Many of you posters have graced readers of APM and AGF with many of your tasty played tunes. They demonstrate a variety of rhythmic grooves. Can you expound upon the variety of grooves and whether you have a deliberate approach to using them within a given song? Does a mature groove imply mastery and make it public ready within your repitiore?

On groove; Often I hear from fellow blues players to strongly emphasize 2 and 4th notes. I follow this advise on most ocassions and then change it during later solo verses (no lyrics) to emphasize some 1st and 3rd beats. I watch the audience and they seem to perk up - although with my inexperience they may be just cringing. Do you employ similar tactics?

Retreating back to reading, Eric

[Laird_Williams]

Originally Posted by stuartb

How important is it for you to really own a song, every nuance of how you will strike the strings from a right hand perspective, the subtlest bend or vibrato from the left hand. I'm referring to solo fingerstyle. May not be as applicable for other.

Is it important that you really master each song you work on or does it not matter much to you.

I'll join the opinions as they are posted.

best,

Stuart

I think think you have just described one of the key components of the difference between "making music" and "playing the right notes".

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I didn't see the original question being about playing everything the same every time. You can vary tunes and still be a stickler for phrasing, vibrato, tone, whatever. Few players are as meticulous as Pierre Bensusan, for example, yet he improvises quite a bit. I think playing well in any style requires mastering all the subtlties. If you want it to sound good, one way or another, you'll have to pay attention to details.

I agree with this, and I'll try to add my own spin...that is, one should attempt to master as many of the technical right and left hand maneuvers (for want of a better word) as possible, things that relate to what Doug mentioned, "phrasing, vibrato, tone, whatever." Much of these do come from the Classical world, but not all.

Once these become an integral part of your being (!), then you can use the techniques at will, creating a new or different feeling based on your mood (or based on whatever!).

Unlike Bensusan, I almost never improvise while playing one of my original pieces, that is, in terms of new notes, new passages, or different fingerings (perhaps someday I will have success in this area!)...but I *rarely* play a piece the same way twice, in regards to the emotive aspect that can come from having a reasonably good mastery of some subtle (and sometimes not-so-subtle) right and left hand techniques...

Expanding your musical vocabulary in this way allows you to communicate more and better with your music, original or not. It's something any serious musician should strive for.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Short Balding G

Can you expound upon the variety of grooves and whether you have a deliberate approach to using them within a given song?

Certain music genres are as closely defined by their rhythm as much as anything. Even within a certain piece a rhythmic pattern
can be used to pull together different parts of a piece that may have contrasting melodies or keys and on the other hand can be
used to add variety within the same melody line. I like playing with accents, going in and out of syncopation and sometimes meters
also. Rhythm can impart a feeling of the music being propelled forward, of falling forward into the next phrase, and in most, but not
all, of my pieces that is what I try to do.

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

If you want it to sound good, one way or another, you'll have to pay attention to details.

A+