classical vs steel string technique

[paul84]

I'm looking at some classical technique to improve my RH in particular.

In classical technique the rest stroke seems to be the first taught basic stroke and then the free stroke.
On steel string I tend to play rest stokes exclusively (except perhaps with my thumb - with which I almost always play rest stokes).

Is this typical, and if so why? I find the rest stoke more difficult (but I guess that practice) but why is it so common on classical rather than steel - is it down to needing the extra volume on a nylon strung guitar?

Paul.

[rick-slo]

Many steel string players, beginners and pros, have the right hand fingers in a claw position. That won't fly well on classical guitar but as steel strings respond differently than nylon strings it works relatively well on flattops. Certain styles such as consistent palm muting do not lend themselves to rest strokes.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by paul84

...On steel string I tend to play rest stokes exclusively (except perhaps with my thumb - with which I almost always play rest stokes).
...Is this typical, and if so why?

Hi Paul…
No, I think not typical at all. In fact, if you drop terms like rest stroke or free stroke out there in a fingerstyle discussion most players don't know what you are talking about...doesn't mean they don't exist, but they are not defined as such.

For one thing, there is one major school and one minor school of technique (Segovia and Terrega) which dominate classical guitar training...and they are pretty much taught, followed, and somewhat revered (and argued)...they are the standard to which everything else is 'held accountable'. Flatpicks need not apply...

Not so with the steel string fingerstyle community...
With fingerstyle, there are a lot of self-styled approaches to the technique, well beyond thumb-n-1-finger, thumb-n-2-finger, thumb-n-3-finger, (even thumb-n-4-finger) approaches.

There is the claw hand position (or curled fingers at an oblique angle to the strings), pinky floating, touching or planted, nails vs flesh vs fingerpicks, thumb-picks vs flesh vs nail, palm muting, chord driven and dominated approaches...with far less musical scores and a lot of 'theory-ignorant' do-it-yourselfers with a bent toward see-n-do.

And there are specific areas of fingerstyle, chord melody, accompaniment, Travis, ragtime, blues, swing, jazz etc which involve a lot of techniques which are sometimes ''better caught than taught'' from someone who knows how to do it rather than by book, instructor or class.

That just scratches the surface of the fingerstyle side and doesn't even touch the flatpick arena...which is as active, varied and virile as the fingerstyle side of things. We didn't touch on capos, or partial capos either.

The thumb in Travis style is a rest-stroke of sorts, whereas the finger (or fingers) do a lot of free stroking...often outlining the melody notes. And a lot of fingerstyle guitar involves plucking as many as 4 strings simultaneously which is rare in classical play - hence the oblique, curled hand position on the plucking hand being the main hand position.

Then there is the shape/size of the body of the instrument, and the propensity for longer, shallower and narrower necks/fingerboards. This leads to a right knee approach more often so the fingering arm/shoulder are not stretched too far to one side. Posture is pretty lax in the non-classical environment.

And the sustain on a steel string acoustic guitar far outshines that of a classical instrument, hence more deliberate muting techniques and arrangements built around a more ample sustain.

There is also a more free approach to arrangements in the non-classical realm. It's no big deal in acoustic steel string arranging to say ''One more time!'' or ''Take it!'' and repeat something in an improvisational fashion, or change it altogether. Not so frequent in the classical realm where the score rules the arrangement.

Also, steel string players are much quicker to transpose keys of an established arrangement for the sake of convenience - you don't see that much in the classical community either. Again the original piece is held in higher esteem among classical players...

I realize this is more answer than you are expecting, but all these things factor into the lack of responses to your question. Some of it is simple ignorance to your terms, and more is related to the fact most fingerstylers don't work very hard on rest strokes or free strokes or other 'classical' techniques...they just play guitar.

[paul84]

Thanks for the responses guys - I'm always impressed with the quality of insight on this forum!!

Larry - yes, more of an answer that I was expecting, but that was very interesting. Typo on my part - I tend to play _free_ strokes almost exclusively (which I suspect is typical among fingerstyle players). I was thinking about improving my rest strokes but got to thinking 'why?'. Your reply leads me to come to the conclusion that I shouldn't sweat it, but that its worth being aware of rest strokes and think about where they might be helpful.

I think there's still a lot in classical technique that I want to look into to improve my RH - recently bought Pumping Nylon - there's a lot of great ideas and excersises in there.

I think perhaps that there's a lot to be gained by be aware of different techniques and ideas, even if you don't want to apply them all the time - be that rest stokes, slapped harmonics, purcussion, slide or whatever...

So much Guitar, so little time

Paul.

[tbeltrans]

One possible "why" of rest strokes for a fingerstyle player is to bring out the melody over the accompaniment. Instead of everything in a given moment in time being played either at the same volume level (or at random levels for each finger), being able to emphasize the highest (melody) note at a higher volume than what the other ifners are playing at a given moment in time tends to bring out the melody, making it easier for the listener to follow. When you listen to a classically trained player, you will hear CONTROL over every individual note being played. SOME fingerstyle players have this too, but classical technique develops this this a very high degree. ONE of the elements of this is the "proper" use of free and rest strokes.

Tony

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

One possible "why" of rest strokes for a fingerstyle player is to bring out the melody over the accompaniment. Instead of everything in a given moment in time being played either at the same volume level (or at random levels for each finger), being able to emphasize the highest (melody) note at a higher volume than what the other ifners are playing at a given moment in time tends to bring out the melody, making it easier for the listener to follow. When you listen to a classically trained player, you will hear CONTROL over every individual note being played. SOME fingerstyle players have this too, but classical technique develops this this a very high degree. ONE of the elements of this is the "proper" use of free and rest strokes.
Tony

+1 Control of the volume and dynamics of each individual string should be on the minds of all guitarists. Judicious selection of rest strokes can be a part of that.