The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-05-2021, 09:31 PM
TBman TBman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 29,499
Default 2nd hardest part about writing instrumentals

The hardest thing is the melody.

The second hardest thing is writing the "glue" between your A section, your B sections and the C sections (if used).

Lately I've just been finding a note, sometimes with a lead in, that just sort of resolves or suggests the resolution to the first note of the following section.

Every tune is different so studying my favorite tunes isn't a lock in for solutions, but I guess going back to take a look at what others do isn't a bad idea.

What do you?
__________________
Barry



Avalon Ard Ri L2-320C, Furch Yellow Gc-CR, Gibson J-45, Guild D-120C, Larrivee OM-05, Martin D-16GT

Star of the County Down:


Celtic covers - videos

https://soundcloud.com/barry329

Enjoying guitars since 1964.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-05-2021, 10:08 PM
rick-slo's Avatar
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 14,454
Default

A little picture I put together

__________________
Derek Coombs
Website -> Music -> Tabs -> and Youtube
Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs
Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love
To be that we hold so dear
A voice from heavens above
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-06-2021, 12:37 AM
rwhitney rwhitney is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 82
Default

I usually sing a melody over the progression or improvise a melody on guitar or piano, then refine it later. I often like to write out the melody and then make the rhythms, especially, more interesting, less square, more syncopated.

I often extend notes that were originally shorter over the barline, which sometimes adds a non-harmonic suspension, more colorful and interesting melody.

Besides harmonic progressions, modulation, and melodic fragments, one way to tie different sections together is by maintaining the rhythm, or part of the rhythm, of one section into the next. This can be the rhythm of the melody or harmony as well as of the rhythm section. At least at first, then the rhythm can morph into something new. Especially if there’s something distinctive about the first rhythm to carry over.
__________________
Collings OM-2H with cutaway
Cordoba GK Pro Negra flamenco
National Resonator Collegian
Taylor 562ce 12-string

Last edited by rwhitney; 01-06-2021 at 12:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-06-2021, 03:27 PM
ljguitar's Avatar
ljguitar ljguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: wyoming
Posts: 40,211
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBman View Post
The hardest thing is the melody.

The second hardest thing is writing the "glue" between your A section, your B sections and the C sections (if used).

Lately I've just been finding a note, sometimes with a lead in, that just sort of resolves or suggests the resolution to the first note of the following section.

Every tune is different so studying my favorite tunes isn't a lock in for solutions, but I guess going back to take a look at what others do isn't a bad idea.

What do you?
Hi Barry
If you think A=Verse, B=Refrain, C=Bridge, then how do you think of the Introduction, 1st/2nd endings, and endings/codas?

I tend to just use words (like intro, verse, chorus, bridge, ending). This is especially true if I'm playing with others in a backing instrumental role.

As to your topic…I don't find it difficult to transition/write between sections, and actually try different musical 'tricks' (sometimes deliberately less smoothly) to draw attention to them. I think of bridges as a place to wake the mind of the listener.

I tend to write chorus sections which flow right out of the verse, and chorus sections, though they often vary slightly in tempo (slightly) or meter (duplet to triplet etc) accents, and volume.

Bridges are fun for me to write because it's like adding spices to my cooking. Make it more punchy, or deeper flavored. I love contrast…change from choppy to smooth (or vice versa), take it to the high register versus first 6 frets, strummed versus fingerstyled, or add a harmony to the melody etc.

I have written bridges in the minor 5th of the original key, and then finished the bridge with the major V chord of the original, and dropped right back into the original melody in the original key.

There are just so many great transitions 'out-there'…

Have fun storming' the castle!!





__________________
Larry J

Baby #01
Baby #02
Baby #03
Baby #04
Full-size Full-Scale Baby #4

Larry's songs...

…Just because you've argued till a discussion turns silent doesn't mean you have convinced anyone…

Last edited by ljguitar; 01-06-2021 at 03:30 PM. Reason: clarification
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-07-2021, 09:42 AM
Mr. Jelly's Avatar
Mr. Jelly Mr. Jelly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Sioux City, Iowa
Posts: 5,663
Default

My favorites and the hardest for me is to come up with or find three choruses that make sense together as different sections. At least that's the way I look at it.
__________________
Waterloo WL-S Deluxe with K & K mini

Another guitar playing hack
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-07-2021, 10:11 PM
islandguitar's Avatar
islandguitar islandguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 3,631
Default

Hi Barry....yeah, studying others and just listening and or watching what others do can help spring something forward. I've found in several instances that a single unique chord, usually something both seen and heard can propel me with my own stuff.

I like Larry's suggestion of waking the mind up of the listener, and that's something I've intentionally done with my tunes.

Honestly, there are times when I just keep repeating that A section (or whatever) over and over, knowing that something will pop when the mood is right on a different night or a different guitar is used. So there's a level of needed patience, a kind of intentional "wait and see" in order to splice things together into something that seems to fit. This combined with some basic theory seem to help with moving forward.

Finally, I sometimes will take the treble string melody I've worked out and move it to the mid or bass strings and repeat it there. When Mau Lau (Joe Charter) was posting here I saw that he did that a lot with his music and so I look for when the moment is right to try that out.
__________________
1993 Bourgeois JOM
1967 Martin D12-20
2007 Vines Artisan
2014 Doerr Legacy
2013 Bamburg FSC-
2002 Flammang 000 12 fret
2000 McCollum Grand Auditorium

______________________________
https://soundcloud.com/island-guitar
Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/artist/2iz6y5ESPg0Gga3btSh2nH
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-07-2021, 11:39 PM
TBman TBman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 29,499
Default

I'll keep at it.

I really like slow haunting melodies, but I can't write them, at least so far. Once I finally get an idea for one I think getting the parts together might be easier than it is now. Hopefully the stronger the melody, the easier it will be. Then again, maybe not
__________________
Barry



Avalon Ard Ri L2-320C, Furch Yellow Gc-CR, Gibson J-45, Guild D-120C, Larrivee OM-05, Martin D-16GT

Star of the County Down:


Celtic covers - videos

https://soundcloud.com/barry329

Enjoying guitars since 1964.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-08-2021, 08:43 AM
j3ffr0 j3ffr0 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,626
Default

I use screws between sections instead of glue.

I usually don't have much of a problem going from one section to another... they usually flow pretty well. I do sometimes have some difficulty coming up with a good C section when I feel like the song requires one. In those cases I just keep throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks. I often turn to theory.... look for a key change. When I do change keys it takes a little mental effort to figure out where and how I want make my pivots.... so I guess that constitutes working with fasteners. .
__________________
Alvarez: DY61, MC90C
Huss and Dalton: DS Crossroads, 00-SP
Kenny Hill: Heritage, Performance
Taylor: Baritone 314ce, 356e, Baritone 8
Timberline: T60HGc
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-09-2021, 04:38 AM
Howard Emerson Howard Emerson is offline
AGF Sponsor
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Huntington Station, New York
Posts: 6,801
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBman View Post
The hardest thing is the melody.

The second hardest thing is writing the "glue" between your A section, your B sections and the C sections (if used).

Lately I've just been finding a note, sometimes with a lead in, that just sort of resolves or suggests the resolution to the first note of the following section.

Every tune is different so studying my favorite tunes isn't a lock in for solutions, but I guess going back to take a look at what others do isn't a bad idea.

What do you?
Hi Barry,
The second hardest thing for ME to do is listen to quick recordings of whatever I'm working on, and I know instantly if I'm blowing smoke up my keister, or if I'm onto to something.

If I'm NOT onto something, I delete it or forget about, with no remorse.

Of course that means that the first part wasn't considered enough.

Just because something is catchy doesn't mean it's good, or worthy of building a frame for so you can hang it on the wall to say "Look what I made".

HE
__________________
My New Website!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-13-2021, 11:29 AM
Blueser100's Avatar
Blueser100 Blueser100 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBman View Post
The hardest thing is the melody.

The second hardest thing is writing the "glue" between your A section, your B sections and the C sections (if used).

Lately I've just been finding a note, sometimes with a lead in, that just sort of resolves or suggests the resolution to the first note of the following section.

Every tune is different so studying my favorite tunes isn't a lock in for solutions, but I guess going back to take a look at what others do isn't a bad idea.

What do you?
I have a much easier time coming up with compositions on piano than guitar. Ideas seem to flow, and often start with just noodling on a chord progression. The melodies seem to write themselves. Not so much on guitar for me.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=