Mooer Radar pedal - IR loader

[Monsum]

I've just found an interesting and relatively cheap pedal called Mooer Radar which loads IRs and can make a piezo signal more natural although it seems to be targeted at electric guitarists for speaker simulation.

You can make your own Impulse Responses or buy from 3 Sigma Audio or others.
Here is a audio/video demonstration how it works with acoustics:




If you cannot access the above video, here the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXMz06S5OS0

[Cuki79]

It has only 512 pts IR...

Tonedexter for example uses around 2048pts as standard and 8192pts in slot 22.

You'll have to adjust the low end with the parametrics.

Note that AMT CP-100 is very small too. I fits in my pocket. I've been using it lately. It has 984 pts IR, 5 full parametrics and High and low pass filters.

[Monsum]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

It has only 512 pts IR...

It might have 'only' 512 pts IR (I don't know what it means) but the real question is 'does it sound good?'
Following this logic, the AMT CP-100 has 'only' 984 in comparison to what the Tonedexter offers.

Mooer Radar is €125 and AM CP-100 is €208 at Thomann.
Mooer Radar also has a 4 band parametric EQ and HPF/LPF.

In my opinion it sounds promising in the above video, considering it's recorded straight into an audio interface.

Are there any cheaper hardware IR loaders on the market?

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by Monsum

It might have 'only' 512 pts IR (I don't know what it means) but the real question is 'does it sound good?'
Following this logic, the AMT CP-100 has 'only' 984 in comparison to what the Tonedexter offers.

Mooer Radar is €125 and AM CP-100 is €208 at Thomann.
Mooer Radar also has a 4 band parametric EQ and HPF/LPF.

In my opinion it sounds promising in the above video, considering it's recorded straight into an audio interface.

Are there any cheaper hardware IR loaders on the market?

An IR is a wav file with a number of samples. The longer the IR the more "definition" or "accuracy" especially in the low end.

If you want to know if it sounds good, just use a free IR convolver with your audio interface and use the IR file reduced to 512 samples (11.2ms at 44.1kHz).

[Cuki79]

Here is a picture of the frequency EQ curve you apply with an IR file.

Note that those IR are not optimized... just raw stuffs. But they all basically went trough a similar process. I think it's an IR I made for a K&K equipped guitar, there is a boost at 5-6 KHz in the presence range were the K&K is lacking.

* The orange curve is with 8096 pts (or samples) so it is equivalent of Tonedexter slot 22 "studio" mode.

* The red curve is with 2048 pts (or samples) and is typical of what I believe Fishman or Tonedexter uses.

* The blue curve is with 984 pts for my AMT CP-100. The low frequencies are not as well resolved.

I like the AMT CP-100 because it provides 16dB gain to compensate for the IR attenuation and uses NE5532 quality opamps (I think). The AMT CP-16 eval board uses those.

As time goes by, I like sorter IR because I find long IRs to be easily muddy... They sound great at home, but as you push the volume you may find yourself wanting for more clarity. One way to fight that is to blend some dry signal (Fishman strategy).

I did not try the Mooer... I guess for the same money you can find second hand Fishman Aura 16 or an AMT CP-100 too.

[Monsum]

It looks like they improved the Mooer Radar pedal with the latest firmware:

Increased maximum IR sample length from 11.6ms (512points) to 23.2ms (1024 points)

[Cuki79]

That's definitely great news

[Crooner]

Hey there.
I'm in the process of putting together a pedalboard for live acoustic gigs and want to use IRs to get the best possible tone.
I'm not sure if this is the "normal" way to do this, but here's what I'd like to do...
I'd like to run into the Radar (or possibly something like the Two Notes Torpedo CAB), thus getting my nice IR tone, and then go into some pedals like an LR Baggs Venue DI (taking advantage of the saturation and EQ), a nice compressor, some Strymon pedals, etc.

Is this possible? Can I run the Radar like this or must its signal go directly to a mixer? Must an IR box sit in a specific spot in a pedal chain?

I appreciate any help and advice!

Cheers,

Crooner

[Monsum]

Because of the low impedance input on the Radar, you would need an active pickup, if the Radar is placed first in the signal chain.
For passive pickups it's better to put the LR Baggs preamp first and then everything else after it or use the effects loop instead.

The Radar has an EQ built-in so if you use an active pickup you could plug your guitar straight into the Radar and then into a mixer.

[Crooner]

Thanks Monsum.
If it's okay with you, I might reserve the right to ask you further questions as I assemble my pedalboard.

Thanks!

[Crooner]

Another question...
As part of my live acoustic setup, I am thinking about getting a Blueridge BR163CE, which come equipped with a Fishman Presys Blend pickup. I have not been able to definitively find if this is an active pickup, but it does use a battery, so I'm inclined to think it is.
*If* it isn't, and thus needs a pre to boost its signal for the Mooer, could I use something like the Baggs Align series ACTIVE DI after the Radar to allow me to then send the IR signal to other effects and eventually to a mixer/amp?
My concern is the ability to send the IR acoustic sound on to effects, EQ, compression, etc. to sculpt the sound.
If the Radar is the last box in the signal chain, then wouldn't any effects before it be altered by the IR's influence?

Thanks and please excuse my ignorance this matter.

[Monsum]

The pickup you mentioned is indeed an active one, so no external preamp needed. You're right about the order of pedals, the guitar should be plugged into the Radar first and then into other effects, otherwise they would affect the IR process.

With this pickup you definitely don't need a DI box (like the Baggs Align one) and for equalization you can take advantage of what the Radar pedal offers which is a parametric or graphic EQ.

[lovgren]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Note that AMT CP-100 is very small too. I fits in my pocket. I've been using it lately. It has 984 pts IR, 5 full parametrics and High and low pass filters.

WOW! This is exactly what I need, all in one box. I'm currently using three devices to get all of these features.

Are you satisfied with the AMT CP-100 for general live use? Is it possible for a person to make their own IR with relative ease (assuming a person has a Mac, nice condenser mic, and audio interface)?

I'm super intrigued by this!!

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by lovgren

WOW! This is exactly what I need, all in one box. I'm currently using three devices to get all of these features.

Are you satisfied with the AMT CP-100 for general live use

Hi Lovgren,

Sorry for the delay but I don't go on the AGF anymore (love you people, but it became an addiction). I am happy with the AMT CP-100. The only problem is that the 5 full parametrics don't overlap... so there are two small gaps in frequency you can't reach with the parametrics. In my case, it means I have to rework the IR file to correct an unwanted ringing (it occured on only once).

Is it possible for a person to make their own IR with relative ease (assuming a person has a Mac, nice condenser mic, and audio interface)?

You you don't need more gear to make an IR file.

You must have some kind of experience in signal processing and programming. The IR files are Finite Impulse Response. Johnfields45 explained it well in this post
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...8&postcount=21. If you understand what JohnFields45 wrote, you can read my previous threads about making IRs, download the Audiosprokets Tonedexter & Fishman Aura's patents. Those are well written, and you can start programming. Of course not everything is told, but you can get very good result quite easily. Getting great results need some work and feedback. Doug Young really helped me to perfect my own process. I think he actually trained my ears and my brain!!! It was really fun and I am very happy with that experience however if you just want to get a good plugged-in tone, you would probably save yourself some time and money just buying a Tonedexter.

Otherwise, some people also use softwares to generate matching EQ curves in IR files which is what Yamaha SRT mic modelling is (see the Yamaha patent). Results are good but not as convincing.

Note:
If you don't need the parametric EQs and use K&K there is a new kid on the block with 1 Mohms input impedance (Hotone Binary)
http://www.hotoneaudio.com/products/.../0224/262.html

[hazmuz]

does anyone know if it is possible to update the radar with the newest firmware if you are on win7?
i read somewhere that it works only with win10 and i want to be sure before buying.