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  #16  
Old 10-04-2018, 04:56 AM
Jaden Jaden is offline
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Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
I own all three and I'll tell you what I really think:


There are a couple of basic electric guitar philosophies out there and they feature so many differences in construction that it is hard to nail sounds down to one characteristic. The two: classic Fender and classic Gibson.


1. Classic Fender: The new kid on the block. The Ford of the guitar world. The epitome of assembly line construction. Maple necks built on one assembly line, lightweight bodies built on another assembly line, electronics built into pickguards on a third assembly line. Single coil pickups are the signature and give the signature snap and bite that offers a whole octave of overtones more than the Gibsons. The neck was designed for easy assembly and replacement. Leo was the iconoclast who built zorchy guitars that looked like they were from Mars but took the West Coast by storm.

2. Classic Gibson: Gibson has a longer history in guitar making and has self-consciously pursued a classier image. From the start, Gibson guitars were marketed to appear upscale and classic. As a result they stuck with their dovetail neck construction that demands that the neck and body be joined fairly early in the assembly process and remain together unless major surgery is done. Rather than covering the body with a plastic pickguard they built the electronics into the guitar where they are more heavily influenced by body vibration. By the late-middle of the '50s they featured humbucking pickups that traded off an octave of overtones for drastically quieter operation. Between the choices and combinations of woods, pickups, and building techniques, classic Gibsons tend to compress the front end bloom of the note and give longer sustain.


And there are the problems with isolating neck joint as a singular factor: there are whole clusters of factors that all play into the sound of instruments that tend to move as groups. Neck joint, pickup type and mounting, tailpiece type, etc. You may see a pickup type change but several other characteristics are often maintained.


Bob
Many interesting points here; the multitude of differences you point out between classic Gibson vs Fender has elements of duality of forms that emerge over time in nature to share end results - for example cats vs dogs. Also implied in the above is the use of mahogany vs maple for neck construction and the tonal difference between the two.

Last edited by Jaden; 10-04-2018 at 05:38 PM.
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  #17  
Old 10-04-2018, 02:01 PM
LeftIsRight! LeftIsRight! is offline
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Originally Posted by harpspitfire View Post
i really dont even care about the pro and cons of either, ill take a bolt on neck- period, i like the fact its highly adjustable and replaceable

Yup!

I used to have two replecement necks (Warmoth built) for my American strat. Necks had different profiles and fret wire size. Really cool to swap them around.

Also,,,,yea...setups are waaaaaaaay easier with boltn on necks.
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  #18  
Old 10-04-2018, 02:14 PM
redir redir is offline
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I need to see good scientific proof that there is any difference in tone due to the bolt on neck. I know this argument always comes up but i never noticed any difference at all and I've done bolt on neck conversions to acoustic guitar which if true would impact the tone even more, it doesn't at least in any human way possible.

The difference between a bolt on Fender and a set in Gibson are the pickups

As for playability a set neck has a nice feel to it if that is your thing, I dod tend to like that.
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Old 10-04-2018, 02:25 PM
cuthbert cuthbert is offline
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Originally Posted by redir View Post
I need to see good scientific proof that there is any difference in tone due to the bolt on neck. I know this argument always comes up but i never noticed any difference at all and I've done bolt on neck conversions to acoustic guitar which if true would impact the tone even more, it doesn't at least in any human way possible.

The difference between a bolt on Fender and a set in Gibson are the pickups

As for playability a set neck has a nice feel to it if that is your thing, I dod tend to like that.
So a Stratocaster or similar guitar (for instance, Charvel) with HB sounds like a Les Paul or a SG?
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  #20  
Old 10-04-2018, 03:03 PM
Steel and wood Steel and wood is offline
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Originally Posted by cuthbert View Post
So a Stratocaster or similar guitar (for instance, Charvel) with HB sounds like a Les Paul or a SG?
All things being equal like wood and weight then I suggest there would be negligible to no difference between the different neck joints. (My opinion only of course).
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  #21  
Old 10-04-2018, 09:07 PM
Jaden Jaden is offline
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Originally Posted by Steel and wood View Post
All things being equal like wood and weight then I suggest there would be negligible to no difference between the different neck joints. (My opinion only of course).
When I think about the difference in performance between a Les Paul Standard and a Telecaster Deluxe with same pickups it’s hard to say what percentage may be attributable to neck wood, neck join, neck angle, headstock pitch, body wood, bridge assembly, and scale length, but in my estimation neck wood and scale length would rank as the most significant.

Last edited by Jaden; 10-05-2018 at 09:32 AM.
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  #22  
Old 10-05-2018, 05:21 AM
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Bob Womack Bob Womack is offline
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Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
Many interesting points here; the multitude of differences you point out between classic Gibson vs Fender has elements of duality of forms that emerge over time in nature to share end results - for example cats vs dogs. Also implied in the above is the use of mahogany vs maple for neck construction and the tonal difference between the two.
Interestingly enough, for an approximately five-year period starting in 1976, Gibson made the Les Paul with a maple neck. Those who know period instruments can hear an effect on those instruments.


Bob
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  #23  
Old 10-05-2018, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
Interestingly enough, for an approximately five-year period starting in 1976, Gibson made the Les Paul with a maple neck. Those who know period instruments can hear an effect on those instruments.


Bob
Apparently there was also a special run in the early 1990s described by someone who worked in the white wood section at Gibson in a discussion at TGP years ago.
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  #24  
Old 10-05-2018, 06:28 AM
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The natural sound of an electric guitar depends on the whole, vibrating structure. The neck - a long, thin wand attached to a dense, solid lump of wood - is the most flexible part of the structure and hence has a big impact on many of the vibrational modes within the structure. The headstock mass at the end of the long, thin wand is also important.

I don't believe in magic instruments though. All you really want is a guitar with a smooth frequency/amplitude curve. Sudden dips or peaks mess up the natural, acoustic sound of the instrument - creating wolf tones for example.

Any guitar in any price range which can do this is a contender. It's very different to the acoustic world where a highly sophisticated design & construction are all vital to the final sound. The raw signal of an electric guitar is always heavily processed (even the "clean" sounds). The timbre can be nudged in different directions.

You're always pretty much stuck with the envelope though (the way the volume of the note rises and falls when a string is plucked) and the neck will also have something to say about that. Neck-through guitars for example often have laminate centre-pieces which make very stiff, solid necks. Stiffer means less energy bleeding out of the string and hence the reputation for good sustain.
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Old 10-05-2018, 07:59 AM
redir redir is offline
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The weight of the guitar and in particular the neck has an affect I agree. But the bolt on vs set? Nah. I don't buy it and I've built enough to have a good opinion of it. In fact I will even argue that 'tonewood' for an electric guitar is mostly an illusion. Plug that sucker into a Fender Twin and a slew of pedals and that is where your tone comes from.

I know that's a big can of worms but like I said I've built them and repaired them for 25 years now. I'm sticking to my guns Again, weight and density yes but that can come from oak, pine, maple, holly, what ever....
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  #26  
Old 10-05-2018, 08:10 AM
redir redir is offline
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Originally Posted by cuthbert View Post
So a Stratocaster or similar guitar (for instance, Charvel) with HB sounds like a Les Paul or a SG?
Same electronics, same sound.... for the most part. Different locations of picups, different densities and so on will color the tone a bit.

BTW for some reason I cannot see your pics but I know the guitar you are talking about and I have always liked those Yamaha's.
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  #27  
Old 10-05-2018, 09:59 AM
ChrisN ChrisN is offline
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Originally Posted by cuthbert View Post
So a Stratocaster or similar guitar (for instance, Charvel) with HB sounds like a Les Paul or a SG?
I can't speak to the neck joint's impact, but I can hear a difference between scale lengths (strat 25.5 and lp/sg 24.75). The longer the twangier.
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  #28  
Old 10-05-2018, 04:06 PM
cuthbert cuthbert is offline
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Originally Posted by Steel and wood View Post
All things being equal like wood and weight then I suggest there would be negligible to no difference between the different neck joints. (My opinion only of course).
I don't know if it's the neck joint but I have a Kramer Baretta with a maple body (yes it's heavy) and it sounds very different from a Les Paul.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
Interestingly enough, for an approximately five-year period starting in 1976, Gibson made the Les Paul with a maple neck. Those who know period instruments can hear an effect on those instruments.


Bob
I played many of them, especially Customs. They were the heaviest Les Pauls ever made, some people who played heavy metal like Randy Rhoads, Zakk Wylde and Ace Frehley used them because they have an "harder" sound. The Zakk Wylde signature has a maple neck.

Neck through Yamaha SGs also have maple necks too.
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  #29  
Old 10-09-2018, 12:58 PM
Jaden Jaden is offline
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Originally Posted by moon View Post
The natural sound of an electric guitar depends on the whole, vibrating structure. The neck - a long, thin wand attached to a dense, solid lump of wood - is the most flexible part of the structure and hence has a big impact on many of the vibrational modes within the structure. The headstock mass at the end of the long, thin wand is also important.

I don't believe in magic instruments though. All you really want is a guitar with a smooth frequency/amplitude curve. Sudden dips or peaks mess up the natural, acoustic sound of the instrument - creating wolf tones for example.

Any guitar in any price range which can do this is a contender. It's very different to the acoustic world where a highly sophisticated design & construction are all vital to the final sound. The raw signal of an electric guitar is always heavily processed (even the "clean" sounds). The timbre can be nudged in different directions.

You're always pretty much stuck with the envelope though (the way the volume of the note rises and falls when a string is plucked) and the neck will also have something to say about that. Neck-through guitars for example often have laminate centre-pieces which make very stiff, solid necks. Stiffer means less energy bleeding out of the string and hence the reputation for good sustain.
Interesting points about the neck and headstock mass.

Last edited by Jaden; 10-20-2018 at 09:39 PM.
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